How Local Leaders Shape Your Community

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. Hub Putman, welcome to the Code Red studio. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Thank you, Zach. It's a pleasure to be here. [00:00:34] Speaker A: You and I have kind of been getting to know each other with some mutual friends that have introduced us and [00:00:40] Speaker B: yes sir, the office. [00:00:41] Speaker A: We got to spend some time together and I'm excited to have you here and introduce you to our audience and really just to pick your brain. I think there's a lot of chatter around the national political scene, but we often talk about at First Baptist that if something were to happen that our religious liberties would be curtailed, it would happen on the local level, that it would be the sheriff that would show up or it would be a city official that would show up. And so you are my commissioner? [00:01:14] Speaker B: I am, yes sir. [00:01:15] Speaker A: You're in Nassau County. We live in the same neighborhood. [00:01:17] Speaker B: District 2. Yes sir. [00:01:19] Speaker A: And so I'm excited just to pick your brain about it, tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you to Florida in the first place. [00:01:26] Speaker B: That worked. So I was pretty fortunate. The Navy brought me down here the first time in 1985 to Kings Bay, which as you know is right across the river. Large facility there. And I got a weekend pass and came down and found Amelia island with some of my shipmates. And then I spent a good 10 years trying to get back down here full time. I just fell in love with the place, the island, the community, the people downtown to such a beautiful place downtown. And so I permanently stationed in Kings Bay in 95 and spent another decade there until, well, 9 11. After 911 I ended up in Norfolk on an aircraft carrier and forward deployed twice for Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. Then I retired back here in 2004. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Tell us about your time in the military. What was your position there? [00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I spent 17 years in submarines as a administrator for personnel officer on three different submarines. And then fortunate also to work on the personal staff of the submarine force commander who was a three star admiral and several other admirals up in D.C. so I got to see some executive government experience. And in D.C. certainly the federal government experience at the Department of Energy was fascinating. For a high school graduate from a little town in Maryland to work at the highest levels of government in D.C. was pretty exciting and educational. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Amen. You moved down here and you found yourself involved in a neighborhood situation that got you interested in local politics. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So 2021ish I want to say. Yep. Because I was still involved in the ROE campaign with the veterans group. I woke up one day and a developer that was still working in my neighborhood had decided to take some trees out of an area in a preserve that we had paid for to protect. And so when you get involved in that process, the first people you reach out to is the local county government to get a stop work order or cease what was going on with the destruction of the trees. It wasn't just random trees. They were, you know, part of a master plan that should have been left in place and were promised to us as residents that we bought into this plan. So it's an ongoing. Still an ongoing court case, but that got me involved in local government. [00:03:38] Speaker A: So my grandmother was mayor of her hometown. She served as mayor for 16 years, but she transitioned out of being city clerk into being mayor. So she knew how it worked. She knew how to run for office. She knew what the job entailed. She'd kind of done the job in a lot of ways for the mayor previously. And so when she took that role, I was able to observe and watch how she ran for office. We got out and put the yard signs up and all of that. When it comes to a County Like Nassau, Florida, each episode will get over 100,000 views. So a lot of those people are not in Nassau County. Okay, so this. Tell us a little bit, first of all about this county and how it's different than, say, Orlando or Miami. [00:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah, well, first I'd say it would be our size. So we're about 736 square miles in Nassau County. That's not huge. It's a. And we're really just transitioning from what they would call a small rural county because it was based in mostly agriculture, honestly, you know, west of 95, that's. That's all still agricultural land. And then you have the gem that is the beach and the resort side on the island. So it's almost like you have two different counties, really. Two cultures, very unique. So they call it east side, west side. And so is the interstate kind of the dividing sort? Not physically, but population wise, there's more people on this side, certainly, than there are on the west side. Okay. The other thing I'd say is that we've just crested about 103,000 in population. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Now. [00:05:10] Speaker B: If I refer back to where I'm from in Baltimore County, Maryland, same size, 736 square miles. 880,000 people live in that area. So that's very urban. We're in that delicate phase where we're transitioning from rural to a little more urban environment. It still is shocking to people. [00:05:27] Speaker A: It is. And it's still the kind of place it's very desirable place to live. [00:05:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:05:31] Speaker A: It's still a place where you can get multiple acres. I probably could find 15 acres in Nassau county to build on, develop if I wanted to. That's not necessarily true in Duval or St. John's it's more difficult to find property there at the same time. You've got everything that's happening in California. This migration to the east coast, that's happening. A lot of people moving from up north down to Florida. This is the most northern eastern county, the first county you're going to enter in the state of Florida. So a lot of people are just familiar with it for that reason is made up of maybe 15% that are Aborigines that grew up here on the island, you know, and then maybe the rest migrated down. And most of those are from south of Atlanta. And this is where they vacation for all of their life. And Julie and I were. We lived close to Huntsville, Alabama, so Redstone Arsenal. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:30] Speaker A: And then we vacationed on the Gulf side. So this was all new to us when we came down approximately nine years ago. But it's become home very, very quickly. It's a Mayberry esque community here in Fernandina. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:06:46] Speaker A: But you still have all of the amenities of a larger area and access to Jacksonville and airport and the water, you know, it's just a great place to live. [00:06:57] Speaker B: We're very fortunate. [00:06:58] Speaker A: And you guys really are kind of guardians of that in many ways. [00:07:03] Speaker B: In many ways. And that's a challenge. That's an ongoing challenge. I have our economic people looking at the effects of post Covid migration now because we did absorb a lot of folks, now we had places for them to go. So we're fortunate that the builders, you know, the entitlements were there and they had places to fill. Because once you have a shortage, a serious shortage of housing, then your market starts to get incredibly skewed in the prices, as you know, continue to elevate. So we're not, we're not. We're not unaffordable, but we're on the top side of it. We're very close to it. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Because we're missing that middle inventory for regular folks, workforce folks, firemen, teachers. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:39] Speaker B: That middle housing is really vacant. To do that, you got to get developers to come in and build it. Because as you know, the government doesn't create anything, but we can create the areas where we'd like to keep that density, those people in those numbers, and then keep it from spreading across the agricultural part of the county. So that we don't lose our culture there. That's the key, is to put it in the right place. [00:07:59] Speaker A: You know, we're a not for profit as a church and as a separate 501C3, as I said earlier, but we're also an employer. And so we find that, as when we're hiring people, you know, they begin to look at cost of living here. And it is expensive to live in Nassau County. It's not as expensive as it is in Jacksonville, probably, but it does limit them and it makes it difficult for us to hire occasionally. We have to probably pay more at times than we would for the same position in a different community. [00:08:30] Speaker B: We struggle with that as a government. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:32] Speaker B: Because the government doesn't pay private sector wages. Right. So when we try to bring talent into a staff, we're limited by. I've never thought about that. We can't offer them the money that they can get offered in Duval or St. John's or places or Orange County. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Well, what you're dealing with is similar to what we're dealing with in that it has to be a calling. You have to want more than the wealth in order to do it, because we're not going to be able to. They could always make more somewhere else. [00:08:56] Speaker B: I would tell you that I'm of the opinion of the talent I've met at the staff. It's not about wealth, it's about service. Amen. And then the other thing that you brought up is they come here and they meet, they get a glimpse of this community, even if it's just for a weekend, that they come down and scout us out. And they come out and say, man, I've never seen anything like this. Well, that helps us, too. [00:09:14] Speaker A: It does help. [00:09:15] Speaker B: Quality of life here is so outstanding. Well. [00:09:17] Speaker A: And we find turnover is very low for our congregation, for our staff. People come in and they see what it's like to live here and work here and serve here. They tend to want to spend the rest of their life here. And so it's a great place to be. But sometimes it's difficult to outside of the area. People have not vacationed here before. If you just get on Google Maps, and that's what people typically do, we find. And they go through and they drive around, you know, 8th street or whatever it might be, and they look at the area, they expect it to be Panama City or Destin. It's not that at all. [00:10:00] Speaker B: No, it's very different, I think. And I can speak to the city, certainly as a county commissioner, but you Know, the city forefathers decided to put in these height restrictions and development restrictions back in the late 70s for Fernandina Beachside. And so it kept that massive on the sand, 30 story growth from happening. I think that saved the, saved the character of Melee Island. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Well, it's what makes it special, certainly [00:10:25] Speaker B: the historical preservation downtown. And then I think we're fortunate too on the county side economically. The county decided to open up the south end of the island where you see the towers start at 85ft even those are mid rise 8 to 8 stories. So all that economic engine for tourism and the Ritz Carlton over there and the Omni, those are huge economic engines also. Absolutely. So we have the great mix of both all in one place. [00:10:50] Speaker A: When, when you were considering stepping into that arena, had you previously, back when you were on a sub or back when you're on an aircraft carrier in high school, did you dream about that? Did you dream about running for office or did you see that? Were those your heroes or was that on your radar at all? [00:11:09] Speaker B: Not one, not one bit, to be completely honest with you. Certainly the little dust up over my trees got me involved in county. I do have a friend who was already serving in the county. Commissioner Martin was in District 1 and he and I served together on a submarine some 30. Really 38 years old. [00:11:26] Speaker A: I didn't realize that. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yes, sir. So I've known him since I was an 18 year old growing up in the Navy. And he was a great mentor then. And honestly, I think he's still a good mentor now. Absolutely honestly, he's the one who brushed up against me and said, you know, if you thought about serving, you have another opportunity here and that would be to serve your community in the county. So I came at it with a Navy chief mentality. I've served on the USS West Virginia, now I'm on the USS Nassau County. Because I'm not a very political guy, honestly. I don't talk politics, I talk service. I talk head down. It took me a couple of years to learn a lot of this information and how this works and then go to school through the state to learn to be a commissioner. But I feel confident and competent now that I understand these large decisions we have to make and how to shape the future of our county. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Well, I feel that way about you. You know, from the time that we've spent together and the reputation that you have, I certainly feel like you're like, as I've told you before in private, I'll say it in public, that you're [00:12:27] Speaker B: One of the good guys. [00:12:28] Speaker A: You're all of our team. They're known for being conservative, fiscally conservative, and doing a great job just leading our. I can say that I can relate to that in that it' syou know, we had a situation recently where I went up and just made an appeal to the commissioners. That environment is so different and so alien to what I'm used to. It's not bad. It was well run. It was a great meeting. The presentation was excellent. It's just so alien to what most of us are used to, citizens are used to, that it's intimidating. And so when we consider. I challenge our people to be involved in civic leadership and service, and they don't bite on that hook very often, I think they're probably feeling something similar to what I'm feeling and that they're a little intimidated by it. So I think one of the ways that you can help us is to bridge that gap and just show us. From the time somebody spoke into your life and said, I could see you doing this, you have a reason to get involved. How does the process work? What was the first thing you do? [00:13:40] Speaker B: Sure, Great question. So when I made the decision to run, well, first I had to present to the code enforcement board because of the tree incident. So, like you, I had to walk into a packed chamber and stand up and speak to the board and make a plea about the guy that, you know, damaged the trees. I didn't know. I didn't know anything about the process. And it was quasi judicial. So it's actually a hearing with rules of evidence, like in a court of law. And I just wanted to make a statement. So actually, I remember the attorney cutting me off and saying, that's conjecture. You know, that's inadmissible. Thank you. Anyway, so I had to really learn how to go, even address the board on something that's. [00:14:19] Speaker A: They're very merciful to me. [00:14:20] Speaker B: A rule. A rule in a law. Right. And so you got to meet the intent of the law. So I did take that into mind. I just thought when I watched local. Local politics, you know, and I. And I watched the, you know, left, you could say left, right, whatever you want. The mix. I thought, would it be interesting to have just a pure service aspect and to be in. To be able to go in and serve apolitically, almost. I have my personal beliefs and they're very strong. We've spoken about that personally. And, you know, but to apply them, you know, in this level, I don't see a lot of crossover except to Protect your freedoms and your liberties. All right. Unequivocally. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:59] Speaker B: You should have the. It's freedom of religion, it's not freedom from religion. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:03] Speaker B: So, you know, that's where I don't see the crossover, where we would protect that. We're very constitutionally based. All of our law is based on the constitution and the Constitution of the state of Florida. So I was interested in bringing service in there and seeing what difference that might make on a local level, because I think if you get into the. To the larger politics, which tends to feed on itself up there, you can get distracted. But if you focus on your community and you serve from your heart, then you're staying dialed in on, I think, where you really should pay attention in [00:15:34] Speaker A: a very practical way. How do you have that conversation with your wife? [00:15:37] Speaker B: Yes. I've been a very public guy anyway, because of music, being in the music business. Yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker A: And let me say that you've got a great reputation. The Honey Badgers. You're the lead man for the Honey Badgers. Lead singer, guitar player, got a great following. So we're going to talk about that, too, today. We've got to go there. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Well, that. That certainly got me out into the. Into the public. Right. I do a lot of interface with the public. If you don't know, I ran the Palace Saloon for. [00:16:02] Speaker A: No, I didn't know that. [00:16:03] Speaker B: A number of years. I was a general manager there. [00:16:04] Speaker A: What years would that have been? [00:16:05] Speaker B: 2004-2009, working for the Sheffield family, local folks. That was another funny job I never expected. I came out of the Navy, didn't have a job, went there to play music, and they said, hey, want to bartend? And then bartending during the day. Do you want to run the place? So it was a great honor, but that got me in the community, so I've been around a long time. Back in the day, they would joke, oh, you should run for mayor, you know, as. As the guy running the Palace. Well, I live in Flora park, so I can't do that. But it was an old joke. [00:16:32] Speaker A: We did have a. We did have one of the bartenders that was mayor here for mayor, Johnny [00:16:36] Speaker B: Miller, who also served in the Navy. See, there's a thread here of great service. I think I could. [00:16:41] Speaker A: I can agree. [00:16:42] Speaker B: So then the process, you make a decision to want to serve. You find out, you go to the. To the supervisor of elections, and you go in and file to run. Fill out these forms. And if you can, you can run two ways. You can write a check for $4,500 and get your name on the ballot. Or you can do what they call a petition process, which is go out and find registered voters anywhere in the county and have them sign a petition saying that they would like to see you on the ballot. [00:17:08] Speaker A: So they don't have to be in your district. [00:17:10] Speaker B: They don't because we're an at large county. Although there's five districts and five representatives at large means you can vote for me in District 2. If you live in district, you can vote for District 2. So. So you're really trying to appeal to all of Nassau County. You're not just stuck in your district. So you get those. 775 is the current magic number, 10% of the electorate, the registered electorate. So 775 petitions. You don't have to pay the $4,500 fee. I think that gives you a chance to go out and interact with the public, test the waters a little bit. Well, at least have conversations too. If they're going to fill out a form saying they support you, they're probably going to chew your ear a bit and find out what's your plan, how do you intend to serve and things like that. [00:17:50] Speaker A: So my grandmother went to every door in the city. It's not a big city, but she was a door to door politician and she had, you know, there were some of those conversations could be kind of challenging, but she had those conversations. [00:18:02] Speaker B: You're not always going to knock on a friendly door. Right. But those conversations are important because I believe, because you represent everybody. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:09] Speaker B: And so you have to hear those conversations to understand those perspectives. [00:18:13] Speaker A: So your first, your first run, first run, were you opposed? How was. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Well, I was actually challenging the incumbent in the first run and I knew even less about that. I didn't really know how to campaign except for I had just come off a campaign for a 501C3. I had a veteran campaign where myself and three other veterans rode a boat across the Atlantic Ocean. And that was about a three year campaign. So I understood how to campaign. I didn't know exactly how to translate that except go out and engage those same people that I had asked to help support our 501c3. And many of the same people, certainly that all overlapped. [00:18:50] Speaker A: Did you have to raise Money? [00:18:51] Speaker B: We Raised $900,000. For your. Oh, for the charity. Sorry. For this run I did have to raise money and that was another thing I was really uncomfortable with. Ironically, after raising a bunch of money, it's easier. [00:19:03] Speaker A: People don't understand that it's Easier to raise it like I can raise it for the church. [00:19:06] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [00:19:07] Speaker A: But when I was in evangelism and we needed to raise money just to do the work, that was much more difficult. People don't understand that it's hard to ask for money. [00:19:16] Speaker B: I'm still not comfortable with it, to be honest with you. I was fortunate in that I consider myself a grassroots candidate. So I went to friends and family and folks I had relationships with in the county to ask for that support. And so it's about 20 to $30,000 lift. And that deals with, you know, advertising, signs, campaign materials, mailers. Mailing is very expensive. I did, I did all the door knocking and the sign placement myself, so I didn't have a team of people out there planning. I planted all 750 hup signs. I knocked on all the doors myself. I did those things because I wanted to feel what, what that process really was. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Does that get easier with each. [00:19:56] Speaker B: Each run or it does for me? Well, we'll see. I got, you know, it's just busy. You're like, you're go. I just come off the ocean. So I was kind of anxious to go, go, go anyway. But the one thing I will say about fundraising, and I intend to do this again, is that I didn't take any, what they call special interest money. I didn't use any developers or big corporations or folks in the area. I only went to my friends and family and people that knew about me personally that wanted to help, because I believe that keeps you completely clean politically and monetarily from influence. [00:20:28] Speaker A: The strings are always attached. [00:20:29] Speaker B: I'm proud of that. And I mean that very seriously. Very proud of that. I'm great friends with some of those people who come before us for decisions because they've helped me understand these processes. But I've never asked for financial support and never would. Amen. [00:20:45] Speaker A: So you begin to put the science out. The fun time for me was always when they're counting the votes. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:52] Speaker A: How does that happen on the county? [00:20:53] Speaker B: It's fascinating. I got the pleasure of serving on the canvassing board last election cycle, presidential election cycle. And so you get to watch the entire process from inside the actual chamber where it happens. As I was a member of a three person panel that is the canvassing board. You watch the ballots come in securely. They're all, when they come in, they're all double sealed and double envelopes. You watch the sorting process, you watch them directly fed in the machine by Ben and Batch, Ms. Janet Atkins, who is our supervisor of elections, a Worthy conversation. If you hadn't spoken to her. She runs an amazing. [00:21:27] Speaker A: She does. We were a polling place as a church right up through Covid and maybe a year or two after that. And with the school growing, church growing, it became more difficult to do it. But she always ran a really good, really good election on the local level, on the county level. So those. Each precinct, they're counting there or they're counting? [00:21:52] Speaker B: No, they're brought. Everything is brought. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Everything's brought to you. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Supervisor elections. It's a secure facility within the county building that only the supervisor has access to. [00:22:00] Speaker A: And so you're seeing those numbers go live. You're putting them on a chalkboard. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah. No, no. So the tabulation machines are working. And then we track them on the. On the. Electronically on the thing. I will tell you that this really restored my faith because after 2020, I was a little shook up, but we could have a different conversation. But I just felt like the court system was slightly manipulated to allow things to happen in that election that I think everybody was concerned. I mean, if I could say it that way. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So we actually had a recount situation. We had a city seat that was so close, it was within nine boats. And so we went back, and now the city election is separate from the county. Separate set of ballots, went back, unsealed the counted and sealed ones, recounted everything by hand, came out with 9 vote difference. Again, that really restored my faith in the system. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Just a question out of ignorance. Are we using. Are they the same machines? [00:22:57] Speaker B: I don't know the technical aspects of. You know, I believe nationwide, I'm certain that there's standards. You'd have to ask the supervisor that question. I don't know the model numbers of the. [00:23:07] Speaker A: So. So first, first election, what was the margin? How did you win? [00:23:12] Speaker B: Oh, was there a runoff? No, sir. I won in the primary, the August primary, and it was 72 to 30. [00:23:21] Speaker A: That's a great margin. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Yes, that was a. [00:23:23] Speaker A: That was kind of a mandate. People believed in you. They wanted to see you in that office. You take office, where do you start? [00:23:30] Speaker B: With the fire hose? In your face? How do you educate? [00:23:34] Speaker A: How do you educate yourself? [00:23:35] Speaker B: So that's the first question I asked when I got there. Because your initial indoctrination with the staff, you sit down and you meet 12 people you've never met before, which, you know, each one's got a four inch binder on their particular area. [00:23:46] Speaker A: And this is the county staff? [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yes, sir, the county staff. So you have engineering and you have county manager. So your county is set up. The county manager is really like the CEO of the county. I think you've had an opportunity to meet Mr. Pope and his staff. So they're responsible for the day to day operation of the county and then the board sets policy, policy direction. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Let me say this because again, if I were in the pew and knowing what's going on, this would be encouraging to me as a citizen. I was able to go in Taco Pope, our county manager, sit down and meet with him. He brought his staff in. He didn't have to do that. We're sitting in a room, a conference room with five or six of his people. No agenda. I could talk about whatever I wanted to talk. I was just introducing myself the way that you and I met the first time, and no real agenda with that, but was super receptive. And I'll say that to you as one of his employers, but I'll also say that to our citizens, just to know this is still a small enough area that you can get an audience like that, that a pastor can sit down with a county manager and talk about a new campus plant we're putting up. [00:24:59] Speaker B: You know, Zach, I'll take it a step further than that. My, my county cell phone's on 24 hours a day. I've gotten 1am Emergency utility calls from people and I've answered those in my email. I try to answer as a point, answer every single email I get unless they're unanswerable. Sometimes you're just, you're going to get the vet. [00:25:17] Speaker A: How do you, how do, how do [00:25:18] Speaker B: you deal with it? I'll meet with everybody. I love, I love that. I think that's true service. Right. You, you have to take the call. Some, usually they're upset. Listen first, be empathetic and then try to say, why don't we get together? That's always my favorite is, let's go have lunch or breakfast and sit down, go over this. If, if more folks would just do that. Yeah, just reach out. I would spend 20 hours a day working with folks because in like these controversial land use decisions where, let's say the mob comes out and they usually don't engage you until that last day at that last meeting where they got three minutes. That's just not a dialogue. And you don't understand the process at that point. To engage much earlier in the process is much more effective. And any of us, I speak for the five when I say this. Any of us would take the time to explain the process to you and where we really are. And even if you don't like the answer, most of the times it ends plain, pleasantly. Because you say, well, I still disagree. Yeah, but now I understand the. [00:26:17] Speaker A: I've never had. I've never had somebody in the county to say, look, I don't have time to talk to you about that. [00:26:23] Speaker B: I'm not. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Not interested in that. They've always been receptive. It's been very. And I've never really tried until recently. So that's been. That's been encouraging to find. I, you know, just glad to hear that. Didn't have a reason to. [00:26:34] Speaker B: I don't want to get. [00:26:34] Speaker A: I know you're busy. I don't want to get in your calendar. You've got enough on your plate. But when. When I've had. Need to. As a representative of the congregation, I've found the doors to be open for the average, Average person who's in Nassau County. Where would you suggest they start? If they. If they just say, hey, man, there's something going on in my part of the county, I don't understand. I don't think this is right. [00:26:56] Speaker B: How would they call your commissioner? [00:26:58] Speaker A: Just get on the website, call them. [00:27:01] Speaker B: It's all. Yeah, sure. It's all posted there publicly and in the paper. It's printed in the paper. It's easily accessible on social media. I would say just engage your commissioner and you should hear right back from them. Honestly, if I. If I'm in a meeting, I don't take the call, but I always call right back. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:16] Speaker B: I think all five of us operate that way. And the email, I believe, is the same way. I answer, try to answer everything. Start that engagement right away. So I'd say reach out. Honestly, you can always go to the county. It's so hard. Everybody has certainly schedules during the day. Sure. I'll always cut time out to meet and talk to folks from the. [00:27:35] Speaker A: From the first term, when you. When you sit down in the seat, you're in the room with all these other people, the staff. How was it working with the other commissioners? [00:27:45] Speaker B: It's really an interesting process. In Florida, we have what they call sunshine laws, which forbid us from having conversations with. With each other about anything that we're going to vote on unless we're in the chamber under gavel in a public meeting. So an example. John's been my friend for 38 years. When we're not in the chamber, it's, hey, how's the grandkids? Great. You know that. That's about it. We serve on a couple of nonprofit councils Together. But other than that, we. We don't ever talk county business unless we're in the. In the board. I don't know how they're going to vote. I don't know what their plan is. On A. I really just singularly, I'm siloed in my own research and my own. Now there's some deliberation, certainly before a final vote, where you can hear where they might be going in their thinking. But I've always just stood my ground on my votes. I follow the law and the code, and I think that's an obligation to the citizens. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Have there been any votes or policy issues that you found to be unclear to where you really had to spend some time analyzing, working through it? [00:28:48] Speaker B: I'd say a lot of it. I mean, I don't want to become a land use expert, but I feel like I am now accidentally a land use expert because I'll study the Florida Statutes. When it says that this change of this zoning, for example, has to meet the elements of A, B, C, D, E, and F and G, it's on me to study and make sure the answer is yes. Yes, yes, or the vote would be no. Right. So when folks come in and say, vote no, vote no, I don't want to see that. Well, if the applicant has met A, B, C, D, and E at F, just like they're supposed to, you can't say no. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:22] Speaker B: You're obligated by law to support that. Right. It's not that we don't hear you or that sometimes you have to vote for things that aren't even. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah, you may even see it differently, but you've got to go by what the law says. [00:29:34] Speaker B: Correct. [00:29:36] Speaker A: When you're in those situations, in our form of government, it's a representative form of government, there are times when everything can't be democratically decided. You've got to decide for your constituents, you've got to decide for the county. And there are things that you've got to decide that maybe from your perspective, in the best interest of the future of this county, what are some of the guiding principles? Like, are you. When you're thinking 10 years, 25 years into the future, what are you setting us up for? And I'm asking that. I'm asking that with some of the things in mind, like the layover issues like wildlife, there obviously is a vision there. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Correct. [00:30:26] Speaker A: And where do you see Nassau county in 25 years based upon the policies that you're enacting? [00:30:32] Speaker B: I think that's really important discussion. So we're fortunate here. About five years ago, they started strategic planning and before that there was no vision. Nobody was laying it out. You would have a comprehensive plan that talks about land use and where you want to see growth and where you want to see that, that is one document. But to have, have a whole staff and a whole budgeting and overlays and things lined up on a 20 year scale and you're willing to follow and stick to that plan. Not that I'm saying it's got to be so concrete that we're not flexible and understand that there may be some deviation. But it's incredibly responsible to have a strategic plan to lay out your, your budgeting lines along with that. What can you afford? You know, we have no debt in Nassau County. I mean, that's for. To be at 100,000 people. There was a bond to build the courthouse. If you've been out to Yulet, that's a nice courthouse. I think we have a couple years left on that. [00:31:26] Speaker A: That was well done, let me say that. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Really well done. [00:31:29] Speaker A: They're rarely, when you see public buildings going up today, they look, they're big square boxes. That was, that was something we could be proud of. [00:31:37] Speaker B: It's well done. But I bet you there's a percentage of the population that would say it's extravagant. It's the court of police or the court and I'm sure, court Mahal. [00:31:46] Speaker A: You've heard the arguments, I'm sure. But it's a sign of a healthy, robust culture and society that they look at the people, their citizens, and say, you're worthy of a building that's well done. [00:31:57] Speaker B: They knew that 150 years ago and they built the one downtown. Right. [00:32:00] Speaker A: And the post office downtown. You know, the people of that day, that our citizens deserve that structure and is serving us today. [00:32:10] Speaker B: It is, absolutely. You know, we just expanded it. We just put in another courtroom because it's growing and now that really almost need another courtroom. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Well, I appreciate that. [00:32:18] Speaker B: And that's the future of the county, to be honest with you. I believe you'll see. You know, we're in a used armored vest factory where you came out and visited us there. That's an old metal building. It's about 35 years old. There's holes in the side of it. [00:32:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not the greatest building in the county, I would say. [00:32:32] Speaker B: You know what? But I would say that that shows some responsibility on the part of the county in that you got to, you got to work with what you have. And we don't have that kind of growth to support making that change. But you'll see the jails out there, the E1 911 center, you know, eventually supervisor of elections will have a place out there. The county admin will move out there and you'll see that, that growth as the county continues to go to responsibly. Right, but those are all big ticket items. That's the other thing. Economically, the changes, especially post Covid, what used to cost a mile of road, one to $5 million kind of thing, now it's five to $10 million because costs have inflated that much. [00:33:11] Speaker A: Oh, we know, we know. In the same way with building churches. The unique thing about our church is we're partly in the city, partly in the county. You know, our property on 17 is all county, obviously, but we deal with you guys and work out, you know, things that we can collaborate on the best we can. And we're trying to do that more. When you think about the future, think about the 20 year plan, you've got to use some of your personal principles and preferences. So, you know, another citizen in the county may look at it and say, you know, I think we should have as small a government as possible. I think, you know, big believer in private property and. Absolutely. With some of the new layovers and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm basing this off of things, you know, from our building and other people that have been trying to build property out in the county. There are certain restrictions that would require, for example, you know, back 10 years ago, you would put your building way off the road and you'd have a lot of parking out here and you'd landscape that out and the layovers require you to build it against the road now. And that's just different. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I can explain some of that really is part of your, you know, what you say, visioning or planning. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Is that, is that the commissioner's vision or is that the developer's vision? How does that happen? [00:34:35] Speaker B: I think it's a, I think it's a combination of both. Right. I think that the, the county has, has the ability to say this is what we want to see our growth look like, or this. [00:34:47] Speaker A: What would that be? How would, how would you describe that? [00:34:48] Speaker B: If I give you an example, out by 95 in wildlight. Right. That's where there's an overlay standard out there. Clearly. And you can see it when you drive through. The parking lots aren't jammed up on the road now. They're inside. The building's facades are out and the Landscaping. So it looks. Architecturally. Actually, it looks better, I think. [00:35:06] Speaker A: But even that, I don't completely disagree. I think monolot looks great, but not everybody's going to agree with that. Architecturally, there is a subjective element to making decisions about how a person can build. Right. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Correct. [00:35:19] Speaker A: So is that. Are you finding that well received by the citizens? [00:35:25] Speaker B: There's a little. I think there's a little bit of a rub. Not with the citizens so much as. Because I think they appreciate that we have a vision and want to have a standard. Because you get tired of seeing metal building. Not tired. I don't mean it that way. [00:35:37] Speaker A: No, I agree with you. [00:35:39] Speaker B: You want your community to have a culture like you say. [00:35:41] Speaker A: Well, it's like an hoa. [00:35:42] Speaker B: When you look at the courthouse protects and you say that, you know, that's a building that we believe is worthy of Nassau County. I think that what we're doing there in those overlays is trying to put those same standards up, where everyone has to drive through them and see them and be part of them. It's also about trying to create something that's walkable, bikeable, that'll remain to be seen if we're right or wrong as we go in the out years. But I know everything's not so pedestrian. People are always going to drive. But when you do get to those spaces, is there connectivity so you can have paths? I'd say the concourse is a great example in that it's not connected. It's just one massive sidewalk, you know, for a mile and a half, two miles, and everything's off of that. But if they had had winding trails and left some trees and made us all, you know, more interconnected and pathful, we'd probably meet our neighbors a lot more and we'd probably be out as a community, be interacting with each other more. And those are. [00:36:31] Speaker A: Those are the kind of things that are helpful to know because knowing the principles that were guiding you, you know, and the commissioners and the. The builders going into it, what your values are, that you want to see people where they know their neighbors and they have a community. And I think I'm partial to our neighborhood. I think it's kind of cool that you guys set up and play music in a cul de sac sometimes, you know. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Yeah, we're talking about doing that again, actually. So for. [00:37:01] Speaker A: I hope so. [00:37:02] Speaker B: And again, I know that we're going to rub up against businesses, business in that, because there's maybe a little more expense and having to meet those new standards, and that's the only part I can't really, you know, change. I know that there's going to be some additional expense to have those standards. We feel it's worth it for the, for the culture in Nassau county, for the, for the look and feel of what we want. Because everybody complains about, you know, these. On unattractive strips and these metal buildings. Not again. I don't think government should be dictating over. Dictating that. But I think you can have a standard that people can work within. And if it doesn't work, then we can still relax those standards too, if we've missed a mark. And I don't want to cost a businessman money. I don't. I want him to thrive. I want his family to thrive. But if we can meet a standard affordably, that's what we're trying to do. [00:37:51] Speaker A: Theoretically, that would drive investment. You would have more people invest in Nassau County. Is that the thinking? [00:37:57] Speaker B: Of course. Yeah. Well, yeah. And you want quality investment, right? Yeah. [00:38:02] Speaker A: Are there any elements of the business, community, business sector that we're missing in Nassau County? [00:38:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we're getting close. Right. So we have in our 20 year plan, it's in this growth. I would like to tell you, take a look at the growth transition, laying out where we want to see that. The commercial sites, can we put a link to that? Sure. It's. Everything's on the Nassau county website. But yeah, the growth plan. There are some maps in there that show you where we'd like those commercial centers are going to be so that they're not just stuck in the middle of nowhere. And these have been planned since the late 70s. Some of these things have been on the map for a very long time. The Crawford diamond out west, we have in Callahan, two Class 1 railroads crossing in that area. That's an economic. [00:38:48] Speaker A: They're active railroads. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Economic dynamite to get something in there. But we didn't have water and sewer services, so you really can't build something substantial and meaningful there because there's no services to provide it. So that went in now in the last few years with a grant from the state. We matched it. Callahan matched it. Water and sewer goods. And now you've unlocked that economic engine where you can get a manufacturer in there or some kind of tech where there's job creation and connects to the railroad that gives you a, you know, intermodal connectivity. And so I just came from that press conference with the governor and we've unlocked another one in the south end where we meet down at Baker in The Baldwin area, south Nelson county, same idea. They just gave us a 6.5 job creating 6.5 million job creation growth to unlock that piece down there in the south and get the infrastructure in there to make us connected to the rest of the area. That's how you start to lay out those commercial things that you want to [00:39:44] Speaker A: see in a county like ours. You know, you're trying to build business investment, business growth, create an environment where it can thrive. You also have a very abundant natural beauty and resources. [00:40:00] Speaker B: The water. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Water system. How much of. How much of that is brought to your desk? Just environmental protection and maintaining our waterways and maintaining our forestry areas. [00:40:14] Speaker B: And so again, you'll touch on that in this map too. We've. We were fortunate in 22, when I got elected, the was a referendum to give us money for conservation efforts in Nassau County. And is that state money? It's our. It's tax money that they voted a tax increase on themselves. And we've been fortunate to go out and lay through, you know, these green belt areas up along the St. Mary's river and parts of the. Where we want to see. If we put conservation easements over those places, you won't have any development along the rivers, along the waterways, and you're protecting those watersheds. You already have wetland protection through St. John's and, you know, federal FDEP, state and federal authorities protect the marshes and gravel, but the river really would be our responsibility for Nassau County. So we just put a 600 acre overlay on a piece up there, Saint Mary's and eventually looks like we're gonna be able to protect pretty much the Okefenokee to the Atlantic. Wow. By buying up these parcels and putting them in conservation. [00:41:13] Speaker A: And putting them in conservation, they can still be used for like a. Like a quail ranch or something like that. You can develop something like that. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Yeah. The trick is you gotta have public access. One of my things in my district is that the gateway to Amelia is when you come down 200 and you hit that straightaway, and there's a few neighborhoods there and one commercial piece. Right, right. Well, some of that property came up for for sale, so we were able to purchase it to kind of protect that view shed. And we got our first piece of meaningful real estate out on Piney Island. So when you're coming off the bridge, when you see Piney island, there could have been 40 houses or so there. But that will. [00:41:52] Speaker A: I've wondered about that. [00:41:53] Speaker B: That will now be a public park. [00:41:54] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Cool with public. So the other part is whatever we spend our conservation money on has to have public access. So you can't just buy up every little piece and lot and put it in conservation. It has to be meaningful to the public because you're making the investment with their tax dollars, trying to get a little bit more of that. There's some property just came up on the, on the right hand side as you're headed to the island, which is also on a view shed. I'm trying to partner with the North Florida Land Trust to see if we can get them because it's not big enough for public good. But working with the land trust, hopefully I can get them to partner with us and pick that piece up and then just protect that view shed to the island. Otherwise we'll see another strip ball or. [00:42:29] Speaker A: Right. I mean, from my understanding, it's really. What you're describing is a full time, it's a full time job. [00:42:40] Speaker B: I go to work every day. [00:42:42] Speaker A: Doesn't pay full time, but it's a full time job. And as you said, you're getting calls in the night sometimes. I remember my grandmother would get if there was a dog barking. You know, they don't call the animal resources, they're calling the mayor, you know, and so that's just, that's just reality. [00:42:59] Speaker B: It never bothers me. [00:43:00] Speaker A: But that's what you feel called to do. [00:43:02] Speaker B: If you're a servant, you should, you should be honored. Yes, sir. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Let's talk about this. I'm a pastor, you're a county commissioner. And so we've talked about how business, you know, you have to speak into the business sector, how you've spoken into the environmental sector. There are times when issues come up that are moral in nature. How much of that, how much time do you have to think through creating an environment where morality will flourish? Because even in building a nice county project, in building the courthouse and making that nice, that's going to have moral implications to it. How much, Dalton, what's your philosophy about your role? What is your responsibility to foster the moral future of our country? [00:43:58] Speaker B: I think one that it's our responsibility to have a community with high quality, high standards, high morals. And as much as we can control that through law and code, that really is really the government. The government side of that discussion is law and code. If we don't want to see a nude beach on Nassau county, then we would put in our code that we would have no type of thing like that in our county. [00:44:23] Speaker A: So, so let me be very clear. I don't want a nude beach and That's. [00:44:27] Speaker B: No, no, certainly not. I'm saying. [00:44:29] Speaker A: But. But let me maybe be clear on that. That is a subjective moral. [00:44:33] Speaker B: Sure. [00:44:34] Speaker A: Decision. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:35] Speaker A: So. So, you know, you've got to make moral decisions that are based upon your moral framework and worldview, and some of your voters will disagree with it. There's probably some voters that would love to see that. I'm just curious, how do you navigate that? How do you make those decisions that you said you try to put. Look at the law. Right, right. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Look at the law. [00:45:01] Speaker A: But you can't always do that. Sometimes you've got to make a subjective decision. How do you make those decisions? And do you get whiz? Do you circle? [00:45:09] Speaker B: I think you people around you, or you study the issue, you know, if it's a particular issue, study it, look at the law and code. And then you got to prey on it a little bit. And then you got to interact with the community and try to get a consensus of the folks you represent. And is it leaning harder one way or the other that you want to step in and, you know, consider that that is part of the, of your vote as where they. Where the people around you lie as well. [00:45:35] Speaker A: When you hear from the. When you hear from the constituents, are their concerns mostly in the business realm? [00:45:42] Speaker B: Are they mostly in the growth, the word growth. Are they afraid of change, do you think? Yeah, certainly. Change. Right. If you talk about those folks that are aboriginal to Nassau county, they don't want to see any change at all. The conflict where it comes into law would be Mr. Smith had 400 acres as a farm in the 1900s. And then his family, you always want better for your kids. So he sends his son to college and he comes back as a lawyer in Chicago. And now he doesn't want that 400 acres anymore, so he sells it off for development. Now that whoever bought that has the rights to develop on 400 acres. So that kind of change is a constant. And it's not our job to say no, because we don't want to see that property owners have rights, property rights, and we want to see them enjoy those rights as well. And people need homes, people need quality communities. And you won't get that unless that process organically plays out. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:46:36] Speaker B: I hear that a lot. The growth, you know, I can imagine. [00:46:40] Speaker A: You know, you're cut out for this. You're. You're obviously, you know, you're not disenfranchised. You're not put off when people reach out to you. You know, you've made that clear. [00:46:49] Speaker B: But at the same time. I don't dabble in social media, by the way. That's probably because it's just so. Such a. Such a brutal environment to try to have a conversation. I rely on people to interact with me personally. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Well, that's a great advice for anybody. How do you. Let's talk about some of the fun stuff. How do you decompress? Because it's got to be when you rock and roll. So tell me about that. Tell me about that. How'd you get into music? [00:47:14] Speaker B: I got into music very young. John Denver thankfully gave me guitar lessons when I was 12. [00:47:20] Speaker A: What genre do you put John Denver in? [00:47:22] Speaker B: Oh, singer songwriter. Americana. Singer songwriter. Those great three minute stories that take you transport you to another place. The Rocky Mountains. You could see it without every. I had no idea what the Rocky Mountains looked like. But when you listen to that guy sing, it would transport you to these places. Jimmy Buffett on the beach, John in the mountains. So I just found that a powerful format to connect with people. And then I credit God with my musical ability. I've never taken the lessons. [00:47:46] Speaker A: When did you start? [00:47:47] Speaker B: I started about 10 or 11. My sister left a guitar behind when she went off to Europe for school. And I picked that up with her John Denver record. Oh, yeah. And I put it on the little. Open the record player and stick it on there. Remember the box? Yeah. My first record player. I just tried to copy what I was hearing on the record. So that's why I say John Denver gave me guitar lessons. [00:48:05] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:48:06] Speaker B: But. And I think God gave me purpose because I'd never properly instructed in how to be a musician or singer. I think I was blessed with a great voice and I can play music and it's just such a great vehicle to connect with people. Oh, it is. And brought me in so much joy. [00:48:24] Speaker A: You know, as a pastor, you've got. If we're going to. If we're going to start a new service, the sermon is going to be the same. I mean, what I speak is going to be the same. But music will help us reach different segments. We have two services at our church. One that's more traditional choir and orchestra, one that's more rock and roll. And so we reach different people with those two environments. We love both of them, we try to do both of them well, but we do reach a totally different segment in each of those services. And music has a way of connecting with people in a unique way. And you know, our family's really into that. Cole's up in Nashville and he's pursuing a full time career. Really interesting. He's working for a campaign consultant. That's his day job. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:49:15] Speaker A: And he's busy. Oh, he's busy. And he's. They're managing some of Marsha Blackburn. They're some. Marjorie Taylor Greene's seat that was left open. They're managing those. Those races right now. And you know, it's fascinating to see someone who's a political science major who understands that world, who really has fun with it, enjoys it, but also has that creative side. Those are two things you don't put together a lot of times. [00:49:43] Speaker B: I think it should keep him really balanced too, because it is healthy. Yeah, it should be healthy for him to have both in his life. I think performance in music is a form of praise. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Sure. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Honestly. And so, you know, you're lifting up your voice and hopefully that spreads joy to people. [00:49:57] Speaker A: And how did honey badgers get started? I think I know where the name came from. They were back. Florida was known for importing the honey badger years ago. Is that where it came from? [00:50:08] Speaker B: Or how did you. How did y' all do that? So, you know, there was this funny video on YouTube back in the day about the honey badger and what a dominant predator it is in the world. It's a very funny one. I have to send you a link. And so some guys that used to come out and watch the band early on, they would do this honey. Honey badger dance. This honey badger and the cobra interacting while they were on the dance floor. These were Navy guys. [00:50:31] Speaker A: See, I put way too much Navy [00:50:34] Speaker B: guys that I had served with. [00:50:35] Speaker A: They were imported to Florida to thin out the snakes. And so I thought you must have been playing off that. [00:50:40] Speaker B: So I thought it was Mongo that might be the mongoose reference. May have been in Hawaii. They did that too. Now the mongoose have taken over, but. And then one of those guys, he got deployed to Afghanistan and his call sign ended up being honey badgers. [00:50:53] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:50:54] Speaker B: So we just named the band after him while he was gone. And he came. [00:50:57] Speaker A: When did that start? [00:50:57] Speaker B: He came home a year later. So that would. This was my second band in the area. So that would be around 2012 or 13, somewhere in there. Okay. But Vic, the other guitar player, he and I have been together 20 years in two bands now. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Have you guys produced anything you do? Cover songs only or do you ever write? [00:51:14] Speaker B: There's some original that we touch on. There's a couple of local favorites that get called out now and then that was just a conscious decision to like you said, I don't want to leave here. And if I wanted to produce that and then I'd probably have to take it on the road, then I'd have to leave again. Yeah. So I just like to keep it local. I keep it here. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Well. And we live in a time. It's an exciting time to live is what I do. As a pastor, you know, from Nassau county, there was a day when you had to go to Atlanta if you really wanted to make a difference, you know, you had to go to a Mecca, you had to go to a place where you could speak to the world. And we live in a day where you can do that from pretty much anywhere. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Through technology. And we can produce books through our church that are top notch, you know, that look as good as anything you're going to see in books. [00:52:00] Speaker B: A million. [00:52:01] Speaker A: We can do these podcasts, we can have these conversations, and there's not much we can't do here. And I think with music, it's the same way, you know, you've got access to technology and Spotify, you can. You can get on there just as easy as the biggest rock star in the world, you know, and it kind of levels the playing field, not just in music and arts, it levels the playing field in communities. And so, you know, it's exciting to see people now that can do their job. At one time, they would have to live in Orlando or Jacksonville, and now they're able to do it from here. [00:52:39] Speaker B: I think that's a great point, that the technology allows it to stay local. Some of my mind is occupied by the art of live performance. We're blessed with an amazing community here of musicians, and that will never be replaced, you know, and so I think, I think we're doubly blessed to have that such a core group of talent right here. Everybody cycles around. It's its own ecosystem of. And we're all friends and we all get along and everybody supports each other. [00:53:06] Speaker A: That's the beautiful thing. There's no competition because there are people that politically we would really disagree with. [00:53:11] Speaker B: I work with one, my buddy Ray and I up in Ray. We couldn't be any more politically different, but we love each other. [00:53:19] Speaker A: And something about music, yeah, it bridges those. Those gaps. [00:53:22] Speaker B: And we have conversations we probably wouldn't otherwise had with each other because. Because music makes us, you know, partners that we're willing to listen to each other and we don't. We don't agree on a lot. Yeah. But we love each other and then we get to play together. [00:53:34] Speaker A: Well, let me say this. It's a good example for our county, our community, everybody. And thank you for your service. Thank you for what you do for our county. I know it's sometimes it's probably a thankless job, but, you know, we recognize it, we appreciate it. I hope more people follow in your example and get engaged. And if you need help, just know that we're here, we're praying for you [00:53:58] Speaker B: and we appreciate you. Thank you for that. Yeah. And my decision to run again and try four more years was a heavy decision because part of me felt like I wanted to get my life back, but I don't think I was quite done yet. And so, you know, I'm willing to go a little more, stay on the plan, work with, I think, an exceptional staff of talented professionals that you've met now and keep doing the right thing. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Well, thank you for joining us today in Code Red. [00:54:23] Speaker B: Thank you, Zach. I appreciate it.