Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam,
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Kathy McCallie, welcome to the Code Red Studio.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm blessed, honored and blessed to be here.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Well, it's a privilege to have you. As I told you earlier, Ken and Bev in our church, I'd reached out to them about having a conversation on deliverance ministry. And they said, well, you really need to go to the person who taught us. And so they recommended we bring you in and have this conversation with you. And so here we are.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Amazing. Yes.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: And it's the kind of thing, you know, when we think about.
I come from the Baptist tradition, the Baptist background, and I don't know how it is in other movements, but for our movement, we were taught a great deal of theology related to who God is, how he's represented in Scripture, the nature of Scripture itself and that sort of thing. And just, you know, as Americans, we have some familiarity with basic earth science and things, things we can see and touch and feel.
And there's an overlap between heaven and earth, where this middle theology exists and this study of angels and demons, the work of the Spirit that really I wasn't taught a great deal about early in ministry.
And so along the way, I would encounter things that I was unprepared for.
And I've seen that increase in frequency over the years. I've seen more of it in Florida than I did back in Alabama.
And I think in different regions, I've encountered different things.
And so personally, I began a journey of study. Sam, Cathy was a gentleman who had a great impact on me early on, was a Baptist minister that taught and studied a great deal about this.
And so we're learning as we go. We learn what we can.
And so tell me, first of all, just introduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about your background, how you came to know Christ.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Thank you again, honored and blessed to be here.
Excuse me.
Now, going back, my name is Catherine McCauley and raised as Cathy, I think most of my close family and friends.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Where were you raised?
[00:02:49] Speaker A: Grew up? Let's see, I was born in California, grew up in Kansas and graduated college in Kansas.
So I grew up Catholic until age 10.
And my mom and dad divorced. And of course, those familiar with Catholicism, once you get a divorce, you're not really welcome back. Or we weren't in the day.
This was way back.
And my mom remarried a wonderful godly man. He was a Methodist reverend. So I became a PK overnight. And in my book, I go into my book Empowered for assignment, I give some more insight, my testimony of my natural father, earthly Father, he was an attorney, but he was an abusive alcoholic.
And finding out he was abused and so not knowing I had a choice, I grew up in a wonderful home with my stepfather.
However, when there's trauma and abuse, you don't outgrow it.
You can kind of put it in a box and stuff it. But then, you know, alcoholism, there's a lot of demonic infiltration.
So as I went through college, I agreed with the lie that I had to be an alcoholic, you know, functioning alcoholic. My testimony is being knew, knew of Jesus, not really hearing being born again. And I met my husband after I graduated college, moved to Dallas, Texas.
And he was raised Baptist. And so he had, he'd been water baptized, he had a Bible. And I'm like, wow, you have a Bible? We weren't permitted to have Bibles. And so I got my first Bible, I got born again, we started having children. So we've been married 42 years. We have three children and two grandchildren.
And so my testimony is freedom is because of that lie, the enemy wanted me to believe that I didn't have a choice, that I had to be an alcoholic or I had to put up with the abuse, medicate the abuse so much into that. And so I received a miracle healing, excuse me of I had migraine headaches, like debilitating migraine headaches. So God delivered me from migraine headaches.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Did that happen?
I know that you kind of started out studying for clinical counseling.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: And so did that happen prior to that or after you had begun a practice?
[00:05:39] Speaker A: 1995, I was totally delivered, healed from my. It was supernaturally supernatural encounter.
And I felt incensed. The demonic thing leave my body. That's how intense it was. I was in a church service who believed in healing miracles, non denominational church.
But the progression of that is, yes, thank you for that.
The miracle deliverance healing 1995 led me into wanting to help other people.
So I did the training in late 90s, early 2000 in fact.
You know, 9, 11 happened 2001. And I was going through the training to be a faith based biblical counselor to help people. Deliverance had gotten a bad name back in the 90s. They'd hand you a trash bucket and some paper towels and you're going to throw up. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. That's embarrassing. And so in the church that I attended, my husband, our children non denominational. At that point, I became ordained minister and began ministering in the faith based counseling. In that way, people that came a Lot of them needed just the biblical counseling. But a lot of them had demons. And you don't counsel demons, you bind them and cast them out.
And in my personal life I experienced demons being cast out. So I really had a real life encounter with, with the supernatural.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: When you were there, did you. Would you have called it that when you were dealing with the headaches, would you have called it a demonic attack or. Oh no, you were totally oblivious to
[00:07:28] Speaker A: it being that I would have. And I did go to many doctors and the doctors, doctor to doctor to doctor, I did not want to go on injections, so. Correct.
At that point in my life, newly born again, I was trusting Jesus and I was learning that.
And it says in scripture, Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. And I'm like, okay, Jesus heals people. He's still healing people.
You know, that did not stop with the apostles passing away.
And so it's a faith walk in developing. But I had a lot of supernatural encounters which could, could have been the enemy trying to stop our world. Is this spiritual battle that's undercover that the enemy is trying to steal, kill and destroy. John 10:10. But Jesus came to give us life and abundant life. So myself, the battle began in childhood with the abuse. Even though I didn't know I was abused until later in life when I'm like, okay, well this happened to me and that didn't seem to be anyone else happening, you know. You know. So I realized there was something different in my life compared to a lot of my friends, peers growing up, thankfully. And I give God all the glory. I was able to finish college and then move to Dallas for work because Kansas there wasn't a lot of work back in the 80s and early 80s. So I met my husband and I praise God that God saved me and delivered me from the destruction of drugs, alcohol.
The alcohol leads to more. Right. Because you get in that atmosphere around those people, the drugs come in and then there's more and more and more. That's how the Enemy people begins with a stronghold. Yes.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: And kind of a beachhead from which he operates into other areas.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: And it's many layers. And so when people come in.
Catherine McAuley Ministries I do a lot of group ministry. I do one on one personal ministry and I minister to a lot of leaders and pastors and no one's exempt from from the attacks. And if you've got a call, a purpose in your life to speak, to lead, that's where the enemy will come in to stop.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: In some ways it's almost like it's more of a target.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you have a target on your back. Yes.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: I had a friend who is pastoring one of our campuses of our church, and a mutual friend said, well, get ready, because as soon as a person decides to plant a new work, the demons of hell say, now, what are his kids names? Oh boy, now that really struck a chord with me because it does seem to be true that there are. When someone has a calling and a destiny on their life and that becomes evident to them that the enemy does put a target on them. And if they're blind to that, if they're not aware of that.
Sometimes I think one of the difficulties with our tribe, especially as Baptists, sometimes we get the idea that as long as we're not in a bar getting drunk, that we're okay. Well, not if God has a plan for you, if you're missing your purpose.
And you know he can have you in the flesh in a church just as much as he can have you in the flesh in a nightclub.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: So we look at, okay, you've got a purpose, you got a destiny. There's a real enemy.
If you look at scripturally what happened with Jesus when he was water baptized the river Jordan, that was part of his becoming age 30 into his ministry.
John the Baptist said, you know, Lord, you should be baptizing me. But Jesus said, no, you've got to baptize me. So this is part of the Jewish Hebrew culture. To step into your ministry, you had to have another rabbi, then water baptize you. But what happened was the dove, Holy Spirit, the voice of God came hovering, saying, this is my son, who I'm well pleased. And then what is the next thing? Jesus was taken by the spirit into the wilderness. And then it goes into Satan showing up and then tempting Jesus or trying to tempt Jesus, that's the same thing that happens to us. The enemy can see the anointing, the call. He doesn't know everything, because greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. Meaning Jesus in us empowers, we have an empowerment, an unction from Holy Spirit and we have the angels to help us, which is Hebrews 1:14. Jesus has sent his ministering spirits to minister for the heirs of salvation. In Psalm 91, he's given his angels charge over us. So when we know who we are, our identity.
So Jesus knew his identity and he said, satan, it is written, okay, so there's a way that we use our words. The kingdom of God is advanced as we speak. The Word of God, not what we want. Okay, the word of God. And that's what Jesus did in Luke 4. You see that what Jesus spoke, Satan, it is written, you will not live by, you know, because he was hungry, I'm sure, 40 days, 40 nights, but you live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. So we're made in the image of Father God. We're fearfully and wonderfully made. And that's a huge battle in our society. And for those that are listening, we need to know our identity, because we are made in the image. Are we Jesus? No. But we want to step into Jesus to take our authority as he said we could. And I think that's not been taught in any of the churches. In fact, you know, the churches that I go to, I visit, I attend.
It's not always taught that you have authority in the name of Jesus. Jesus has given you his name and his authority. And that's something more is caught than taught.
And that's. Everyone needs to know their identity in Jesus because we have all the gay lifestyle, transgender, they're confused. They don't know who they are.
And if they knew that they're created in God's image, that God created them beautiful, perfect, just the way they are, and that's a huge battle. Is the enemy, if the enemy, which is all the demons, Satan, people, we wrestle not against flesh and blood. That's a big one in the church, is that people are being used by the enemy and they don't even know it.
I mean, I remember before I was born again, I did some things, said some things, and I was being used by the enemy, but I didn't know it.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: What do you think? And this is something I've always sort of wrestled with. I don't have an explanation for it, but if a person is demonized, if Satan has a stronghold in their life and they're a Christian, first of all, do we agree that that's possible, that a Christian who's going to heaven can have a stronghold of Satan in their life?
[00:15:25] Speaker A: I have a powerful statement there to interrupt Derek Prince, which he's part of the vineyard. He's also in heaven, but he has many awesome books, material.
He said, a Christian can have any. Regarding can Christian have a demon? And his statement is, yes, a Christian can have anything they want.
So it's our will, our free will to choose. Now, does every Christian know they have a demon? No, they don't know. They're in agreement with it.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: So to answer that, yes, a Christian can Have a demon.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Okay.
And a lot of this I would say has.
There's not like, you know, scripture didn't come with a dictionary, right. So we don't have a textbook that we can turn to and say here, you know, when we read this passage here is exactly, we can authoritatively know. But it does seem that a Christian can have some sort of a stronghold over which he or she believes they're powerless, that they feel like that the enemy has some control in their life.
And whatever we call that, I would call that demonized rather than possessed. I would say possessed is full control, you know, to the degree that the person is, you know, they really have no say in it whatsoever. And so I would limit that to unbelievers. That's okay. A lot of people, we may disagree on that.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Let me comment on that, because you're right, I agree with that.
If you're a non believer or you know who Jesus is, but you decide you're going to live your life the way you want to live it, that's really a non believer because you're not submitting, you're not saying Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.
So that means. And God created us this way. We're a three part being. We have a physical body, we have a spirit man, we have a soul.
Most people that are born again believe Jesus Christ his Lord and Savior.
This is a great awakening for us to know right now is that if your spirit man is born again, you've received Jesus as your Lord and Savior, but you've stepped back, you've fallen back to your old ways. You get drunk, you do drugs, you're not really going, you're not worshipping, you're not praying, you're not going to church.
Your spirit man is kind of like, you know, it's suffering, it's dying because you know, you accepted Jesus. But now your soul, mind, will and emotions, that's where the enemy comes in.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: So you would put the work of the enemy there?
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Yeah, in the mind, will and emotions.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Because as born again, your spirit is brand new. You're born again, your spirit man's rejuvenated if you're not born again.
And that's. We have, you know, everyone comes from that at some point.
Now that's where demon possession will come in because your spirit man's not born again. So when I do training on, you know, evangelists or pastors or teachers, prophets, all the fivefold ministry, if they want to get into the deliverance area, number one rule, you do not do deliverance on someone that's not born again.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: That's the first step.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: That's the first to know. Because evangelists, they can do healing. Jesus heals you. And the people come to Jesus get bored. Oh, Jesus is my healer. He just grew my arm out. Or I have my blind eyes. Now, see, I know Jesus is my. It's a God encounter. And so they.
That's the dinner bell for evangelism.
And I tell evangelists, be real careful, demons will manifest, but they need to be born again.
And they have to say out of their mouth, I believe Jesus died for my sin somewhere in this process.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: That's where the authority comes from.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: That's where you have to say, wait a minute.
Because the legal ground.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Well, and you know, what good would it do with the enemy if we could deliver someone from a demon but not replace that? What is it Christ said they'll come
[00:19:52] Speaker A: back with seven Spirit has to fill them up, right?
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yes. So let's.
The big question that I've wrestled with is, okay, why is it if I'm a born again believer and I have the word of God and I know my identity and you're a born again believer and you know your identity and you have the word of God. What. Why is it that God has organized things that can we deliver ourselves? I guess is what I'm asking you.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: So let's suppose somebody's watching.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: And the spirit is letting them know that, hey, what you're wrestling with, that's bigger than your human flesh.
It's something that you're going to need deliverance from.
Do they have to come to a deliverance minister in order to be free?
[00:20:40] Speaker A: Good question.
Legal ground.
Repentance breaks the legal ground.
And so when you're born again, you've received Jesus. I'm all in Jesus, I want to submit to you. I need help. That's the first step. I need help. There's something up in me that is not now. There's power in me.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: The ego has to go away.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Right. We have to get out of our mind, will and emotions. And so that's. We go back to the five open doors, and that's in my book. We'll touch on those briefly. But legal ground.
Repentance breaks the legal ground. Definition of repentance. Yes. I'm sorry.
That's not right. I was wrong. Repentance means change the way you think.
So when I got delivered from drugs, alcohol, that whole lifestyle, I had to repent. I had to change.
So you admit it and quit it. But you change, change your friends, and that's a hard thing.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: And you begin thinking God's thoughts, agreeing with God.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: You have to go into the word of God and renew your mind. You have to take your thoughts captive. So you walk this out. Now, the prayer of agreement is powerful. The scriptures say where two or three are gathered in his name, it is done for us.
So in prayer, when I have a session scheduled, groups, individuals, prayer, lots of prayer, praying in tongues, having others pray. Because Holy Spirit knows what this person's battling with. I do.
And so I rely on Holy Spirit to tell me, is it fear? Is it lies? Is it their soul trauma? Those are the five open doors.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: So you would say, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it's fascinating to me. I'm doing it out of fascination.
So the person may come to you and there might be a way that it's manifesting, which could be a habit of hang up, hurt, whatever it may be.
Right, and you're suggesting that behind that there's an open door.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: And that's really where you need to do the battle. Is that accurate?
[00:22:46] Speaker A: So we look at that in the eyes of Holy Spirit helping us for the person, Jesus already paid for you to be free.
Jesus paid on the cross over 2000 years ago. His blood covenant paid for us to be healed, forgiven, delivered, no shame, no lack, no poverty. Now if there's something going on in our lives that there's demonic fruit, meaning poverty, lack, sickness, fear, anger, something's going on. So we look at it, okay, the five open doors. Is there unforgiveness? A lot of times people don't realize they're angry at themselves, they haven't forgiven themselves. So there's biblical forgiveness. It's not saying, okay, I'm let you know.
But see, God's the judge. He's our vindicator. You know, the enemy will say to the person, well, if you forgive them, then it's like they get off scot free. No, no, they don't.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Right. Justice belongs to the Lord, because the
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Lord will do it better than we can do it. So if there's been ex husband or ex spouses, you know, ex bosses, abuse, control, manipulation, all of that, we first, that's one of the open, big open doors. Because we know we will not be forgiven until we forgive. Now that's not by emotion. We forgive by faith, not by feelings. And that one took me a long time.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: That's a really serious issue.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: And it can bring physical sickness, it can bring the anger.
So with unforgiveness that's in my book. That's huge.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: We had a young lady that Julie and I, when, before we were married, we were Christians in church together, and we were ministering to a young lady who had been abused when she was much younger, and we were trying to lead her to Christ.
We were in college. And so there was a night when she told us that she had been abused. And she said, I read somewhere that for me to be forgiven that I've got to forgive him.
And I don't understand that. I don't think I can do that.
And it was one of those moments where I had not heard this, but the Holy Spirit brought it to mind. Her name was Danielle. And I said, danielle, I said, consider the fact that if you reject Jesus because of what a stepfather did to you, then he continues to abuse you and control you.
And I said, the only way to break that cycle is for you to let go of that and let Jesus handle it.
And that night, she took a big step in that direction, thankfully. Praise God. Can you imagine how many of us it's by faith? It is, but we give the. We empower the abuse.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: And that's Matthew 18, the parable of the unjust steward. That's our example in scripture, where he didn't. That servant King forgave him a whole bunch of money, but then he held his friend like, you owe me 12 denarii. Well, that's a day's wage. And so the king found out he wasn't forgiving, and so they all got thrown in jail. So it holds you, and the tormentors come. That's what it says. And that's what happened to me, because I hadn't been taught anything in the scripture. I didn't even own a Bible. And when I learned these principles of we must forgive by faith, not by feelings. Now, that took. I wrestled with that for a good six months because of the abuse I had gone through. But once I decided, God, I'm doing it your way, I'm submitting to you. You said, vengeance is yours.
Vengeance is yours. Okay, God, I'm going to choose by faith. I'm trusting you to forgive. And then, of course, I had to forgive myself for all the wrong choices, for believing lies.
So once, that. That is a huge open door. But trauma is a big open door as well as the generational iniquity.
So there's five open doors and willful sin. And that's when we choose to agree with the enemy. And we sin. We miss the mark. Sin means miss the mark. The good news with all of this, Jesus paid for us with his blood. We're under grace. By grace, we've been saved. So anybody that's taken, done anything out there, I don't care how bad you think you've done nothing, nothing is so terrible that Jesus blood expunges you, redeems you, restores. Because I'm amazed at what God has done in my life and many people's lives where repentance breaks the legal ground. So as we're walking through this with someone, it's layers in their soul, mind, will and emotions to keep all those five doors shut.
And yes, you can do self deliverance. I started with Pigs in the Parlor back in the 80s.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: That was a book.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: Pigs in the Parlor is one of our little go to handbooks. But it's a phenomenal self deliverance.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: You mentioned you wrestled with something for six months to forgive.
I want to kind of.
And I don't mean to make you relive. I know that's part of our testimony, is sharing how we found freedom. But during that time when you began to recognize that there was something at work here, a stronghold was in your life.
It wasn't instantaneous. It's not like you walked into a church, heard a sermon and went, oh, yada, yada, yada, I'm free.
It wasn't that simple.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: It's a process. That's what we tell people.
You're replacing an old way of thinking with the word of God. And change means change. The way you think, you gotta change.
And that's something. Now, I like change.
I like moving, I like traveling. I like change. I just. That's a gift. I. You know, there's people that don't like change, and it's difficult.
But when it comes to your emotions, and that's an issue in your soul, mind, will and emotion, we can't live out our emotions as far as from our emotions, we acknowledge our emotions. I feel anger. Well, what are you angry about? Well, I don't know.
But if you're not forgiving someone, your abuser or yourself, then most of the time that trauma will manifest as anger or fear. And so if someone, and I used to have, believe it or not, fits of rage, breaking plates, throwing silverware, it was dangerous. And, you know, I needed ministry from that rage and anger because of the trauma done to me. I hadn't dealt with it. I hadn't had. So when we look at someone's symptoms or what they're battling or how it's demonically, the stronghold Then we start peeling back with Holy Spirit eyes, the layers. And that's where, yes, you can do self deliverance. But most the time, you need a prayer partner. You need someone that knows more than you do in this area to ask Jesus to come in and set the person free.
I'm amazed at how Jesus moves. And Holy Spirit's here to help us. He's our teacher.
He's my best friend.
Even though I've been married 42 years, Jesus is my husband. He's my perfect husband, because my husband and I aren't perfect.
And so if you're married, if you're single, and you know, we gotta trust Jesus when you.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: Let's talk a little bit without giving spotlight to the enemy, let's talk a little bit about what we're dealing with.
So when I think when Sam Walton would go into a new city, he would always visit the Kmarts because he wanted to see the other guy and what they were doing.
One thing I appreciate about you is that you have not in this conversation, I've not heard you sensationalize this at all.
You know, you've been very clinical and, you know, academic in your approach to it. But tell me a little bit about the actual experience.
So if you're. If you're with someone, you're in a session, if you're in a group, how does it manifest? Or how do you know that someone is dealing with something?
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Okay, so as we're going through the
[00:31:20] Speaker B: scriptures, and let me say this as well, you would agree there's ordinary meanness too.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Flesh.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: There's sinful things that we're just personally responsible for. And then some things are more extraordinary. Wickedness.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: The flesh will be an open door. The flesh can be. You've got to crucify the flesh. You can't cast out the flesh.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Some of it is behavioral type flesh, where we're so used to this routine.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So if you're in a setting and you're exploring these issues, you're praying, you're reading scripture.
How do you know, okay, Bob has something going on with him or whatever. What does it look like?
[00:32:05] Speaker A: So that's a good question. So we rely on prayer, Holy Spirit and the person, they have to speak these things out. Now, the good setup prayer has to be done before.
Yes. Just like you prayed before. We open this taping.
What we do is pray. A good covering prayer, opening prayer, and we give the parameters to the enemy. You will not cause harm by the.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: You set the ground rules.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Right? I set in the spirit Realm in the name of Jesus.
And. And I asked Jesus to send the angels because the angels are very equipped to deal with. And that's what we do in prayer. When we're as far as territories, thrones, issues from the second heaven, we ask Jesus to send the angels to deal with that. But what we want to ask in Jude, okay, Jude 20, it talks about Satan and Michael the archangel fighting over the body of Moses. And Michael ranking Satan, a fallen archangel. And Michael the archangel said, the Lord rebuke you. Now, if that kind of an honor. Now we're talking about honor and dishonor. Not that we honor the devil at all, but it's his ranking. It's his. Even though he's fallen and we have authority over him, we say the Lord rebuke you. So if. And there's levels and degrees in the demonic realm. If some. There's a stronghold in the bloodline, divination, witchcraft, very strong in a bloodline. The person may not even know that, you know, Ouija boards and tarot cards, go into psychics, medium. They may not even think anything's wrong with that. So we do a good setup prayer and we say, okay, plead the blood of Jesus over that. I don't want that.
Right. Because they come to steal, kill and destroy. They don't care who you are, they don't care if you're the president of the United States. They come to steal, kill and destroy. That's why we need to pray for our leaders, pray for our pastors, pray for our presidents, our government officials, pray for our mayors.
Boy, we need lots of prayer. But I tell you, prayer is powerful. And so we pray at the beginning of every session that the person, and we tell the person, you're going to take your authority, I'm going to take authority. We're in agreement in Jesus name because that person has the authority in them that we just stir it up.
We're having a power encounter, a clash with the kingdom of God. And the person has authority and I have authority in Jesus name. And Jesus paid for them to be free, healed, delivered. So it's not about me.
I recommend having prayer teams praying for all leaders. Prayer teams have people praying for this right now, and I know Ken and Beverly do too, and see how powerful that prayer is for the truth to get out. Because this is a clash of truth, the kingdom of God, light, truth. Jesus is truth.
He's truth, peace. And so what we want to get out of the destruction, the heaviness, the depression, anxiety, the fear. And that's huge. Right now, we want to get back to peace. It's okay to say, okay, I'm feeling this. But we don't want to stay there, because we're not.
We don't want to. And that's one thing I had to learn.
I used to wear my feelings on my shirt sleeves, so to speak, where anything would set me off. Tears, anger, you know, rage, whatever.
But now I say, okay, peace.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: When you see.
And I think I've seen it both ways. I'm curious what you experience, typically when you see deliverance take place. There's times when it's instant and dramatic in the sense that I'm not sure that the person is completely, totally free. Like, every stronghold is torn down, that they're.
That they're totally a fresh start, you know, I don't know. I can't see that. But it looks like it many times. And I'll see the person just so dramatically change. We had one situation.
A lady comes in and she's cursing, she's violent.
Her husband doesn't know what to do with her. I mean, it was like the demoniac, the Garrison Demoniac.
And it was just. I mean, it was so strange. And so, again, I don't have a lot of background in this, so we're kind of guessing at it, walking through it.
Eventually, we had her pray the Lord's Prayer.
And she got to the point where she said. And she's just struggling to get the words out.
And I said, now we got to the point where it said, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And so she eventually got the words out. And I said, now, are there any people demon possessed in heaven?
And she looked at me and she said, no.
And then she smiled real big and laughed.
And she looks at her husband and she throws her hand over. She said, I've not laughed in 15 years.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Wow, praise God.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: And her whole countenance changed.
So she's covered in sweat by this point.
And I told her, I said, usually when people leave my office, there's a back exit, because if there are a lot of tears or whatever, there's. We do want to give them decor on them.
And so. But this time I thought, nobody's going to believe the change in this woman. And so I said, if you would please just walk back through the office. Because they heard her come in, you couldn't miss it. And the vulgarity and obscenity. And she's saying it in her right mind. And it happened just like that. So that does happen sometimes. Does it happen? Every time in your experience?
[00:38:12] Speaker A: Well, we'd like it to, wouldn't it? Most of the time, yes.
What I give them is homework. And they have a responsibility. Once the house is swept clean, they've got to keep it filled with holy Spirit and the Word. And so depending on.
Some people are newly born again and have not been discipled. So it's about discipleship.
We need discipleship.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: And it's just the nuts and bolts of the Christian walk.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: The Christian walk and you walk it out and anything. So I do three important sessions and then depending on what they have come up after.
But I minister to children, all ages.
Single, married, a lot of millennials, which are the 30 years old. 30 year old, a lot of 20 year old.
They're hungry for the Lord, which is fine, fabulous. I love that because it's their hunger. They have to want to walk this out and they have to know how to fight this on their own.
And that's what these tools are, the freedom workbook and the empowered for assignment or tools to help them walk it out. But I give them homework. They have to speak out over themselves, their identity and the scriptures and also to take communion.
And we take communion. I'm an advocate of taking communion, honoring the covenant, because that's what purchased us, redeemed us, paid in full.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: I'll tell people often, you know, it's the dramatic things that get all the press right. It's, you know, it's the person that's so dramatic in the deliverance. But when that person gets up, they've got to do the nuts and bolts of the Christian walk.
They're going to have to be in the Word, memorize scripture, pray, take their
[00:40:04] Speaker A: thoughts captive, which means you can and you must. Every thought that comes in your head is not from you.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: That's right.
And we all have to do that,
[00:40:15] Speaker A: we all and myself today. Especially if you're in a public place and people with the gift of discerning of spirits, which is so needed right now is learning to discern what's deception and what's truth.
Because there's a big difference.
You know, they're calling evil good and good evil. Well, that's, we know, deception and the great falling away. That's what's coming, that's what's here.
And so the battle that we're in. And so I give them homework. Now, I've had sessions, I do by phone or zoom. I really don't care for zoom, but I do mostly by phone or in person.
There's no distance in holy Spirit, that's something. But if there's no reaction, I don't base. I do this by faith. You have to do it by faith. If there's no reaction, no chain, most of the time you do see a huge, huge change and that to give God the glory. Right. But if there's no reaction, and I've seen people have such powerful, dramatic God encounters and they don't show any sign of any kind of change. But there's repentance, there's the renunciation, there's the agreement, they're speaking it out. The kingdom of God is advanced. When we speak the word of God, and we have to, in this day and age, know what's the truth, what's a half lie? Because that's part of the deception. A half lie. But it's still alive, right? Right.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: I think so many times, if they get back on track in sanctification, spiritual growth, or becoming more like Christ, you know, we as humans, we so want to define and categorize. What was it exactly that happened? Maybe we can. Maybe we figured that out over time. But the point is, the thing I really love about your work is getting back to your calling, getting back on track and heading toward that calling that God has on your life. And whatever happened, whatever we call if we got that stronghold, that thing that was hindering you torn down, you're moving on and you're going toward what God created you to be. That's a victory.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: That's it. And God's a God of legacy.
I find that this is about future generations in the family.
And that's the battle.
Because Satan wants the children right now, okay? He wants to rob, steal, destroy. But Jesus came to give the family life, abundant life. God's a God, a legacy. That's why in Matthew, begot this son, begot that son, begot father of Jesse, the father David.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: How long does the session last for you?
[00:43:03] Speaker A: The first session's longer. It's about six hours. It's intense, but it goes so fast. People are like, wow, that's been six hours. I can't, you know, believe it's been. So it's then the second session is about two hours. And then after the inner healing, now they've got homework to do.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Kathy, if somebody wants to learn more, if they want to reach out to you about a session or if they want to study your material, how can they find out more?
[00:43:28] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. Yes, I have a website. Kathrynmacauleyministries.com I have email.
Kathy with a K, K, A T, H Y Macaulay mcc A L L Y MAIL so there's ways to reach out.
And yes, that's so needed in this day and age. As I said, the legacy, we want to stand for the godly inheritance in our bloodline, and that's really key to turn things around as we take things out. We want to put Holy Spirit, we want to put God, Jesus back in what the word of God says. So as we're standing for our children, our grandchildren, because the blessings, the righteous go down for a thousand generations.
And that's something that definitely we pray over people that their children serve the Lord. As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord. And all of us stand in that battle with prodigals.
We want to believe with those watching for prodigals to come in. And we know God has a promise to us. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. You shall be saved, you and your household.
And so we've got a defense with the word of God for our legacy and godly inheritance. Because even though we have strongholds or this going on, that going on, that's not the final story.
We want to say what Jesus has written in our book of destiny for our godly inheritance, for our children, for our grandchildren, our future descendants.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: It's amazing to me, I have. People will ask, well, did you have a lot of preachers in your family?
And I'll say, no, we had a lot of bootleggers in our family. We didn't have any preachers.
[00:45:15] Speaker A: They were preaching something.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
But it is. That changed with my father, and that legacy shifted. And so I look back and I'm just so grateful for what he did and the decisions that he made that I inherited his legacy.
But before that, it was very, very dark.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: Well, and there's a first. God will choose one out of the bloodline to stand for the bloodline. And there's a lot of firsts. That's a lot of the people that come.
You know, being Catholic, I had priests and nuns all in my bloodline. I think they were praying for me. My grandmother was raised by the nuns.
And so my grandmother had a legacy of prayer because we would ask her in her 90s, what are you doing today, Grandmother? I'm praying. I'm praying for you. And so I know she prayed for me.
[00:46:11] Speaker B: Isn't that awesome?
[00:46:12] Speaker A: Isn't that amazing? Legacy? So the godly inheritance is there.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: He came that we may have life and have it more abundantly.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: That's it. Amen.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Kathy, thank you for joining us today.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: Thank you very much.
