Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: And we went home and just really jokingly said it. We led a Wednesday night Bible study in our house. And I just kind of joked. I was like, guess what they said today at btv. BTV was Botswana Television. You asked about Syndicate, it's the government channel, is the biggest one because it's free for everybody in the country.
And this guy in the Bible study who we didn't know was like, I do weekend like videography, I could do it. And if you guys could buy the cameras.
So we took a step of faith, raised money in America and bought the stuff and produced this TV show. And the government liked it so much that they actually. So the news was 7 to 8 every night. But we were telling them, if we're going to give you the show for free, that is going to help with these social ills by helping the family, then you've got to put it up slot. Like we can't raise money give it to you. And they put it midnight, you know, so they said, we don't have any promise slots. And we said, well, that's our only condition. You don't have to pay us anything for it. But it's got to be at a time where people can watch it. So they changed the news from 7 to 7:30 and then our show became 7:30 to 8 on Sunday night. And that was February 14, 2020 is now. Do you know what happened in March of 2020? So now everybody had to watch the news and then our country actually locked people down. So now you're locked in your house, you have to watch the news and then you have to watch our show because you're locked in your house.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Hey guys, my name is Zach and I want to welcome you back to Code Red. On today's episode, we are honored to have the Tabas missionaries from Botswana, Africa, that God has opened up some incredible doors.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: From being an ordinary missionary to being a celebrity on mass media there in Africa. You're going to want to hear their story. So invite a friend, sit back and enjoy Code Red.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Ashley and Percy Toppa, welcome to the Code Red studio.
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Now we've met. You made it to church one Sunday.
Did you? What led you to First Baptist? How did you end up at First Baptist to begin with?
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Well, I grew up in First Baptist, Tipton, Georgia, and I was here on a girls weekend with my aunts and my cousins and they were not going to church that Sunday and I just googled like a Baptist church I could go to. Excellent.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: So, yeah. So one day for people that some People just watch Code Red and they don't know what we do outside of this. So as a local church pastor, the reason we started doing Code Red was because I would have these conversations with missionaries, nationals, people in government, different places, and I would feel guilty that the rest of the church couldn't hear it.
So we began this because of conversations with people doing work around the world. And so thank you for agreeing to come back. And you brought Percy this time.
And tell me, how did. How did you guys get together?
[00:03:04] Speaker A: So when I graduated from university, I moved to Francis Town, Botswana, as an IMB journeyman.
And.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: And a journeyman is a short term program.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Two years, right? Yep. To your program.
And so I was working with young people trying to teach abstinence and character development in the schools through Gospel center teachings. I moved there in August of 2000 and in May 11th. So I'd been there about a school year, if you think from August to May, although I didn't know that at the time. He had been at university this whole time. I'm out for a jog.
I should tell you that his. He was the first one, his entire family to become a Christian. Like, family, extended family. So before he left for university, he had led his sister and brother to the Lord. So I knew that Mickey and Cabello had a brother at university named Percy, but that's all I knew. And as a person from South Georgia, I was not going to Africa to find a spouse like it was. I grew up in a place that's kind of racist and.
And kind of black swanside and right. And white. So they say, like, even church is like the most segregated hour in South Georgia, you know, so.
So, yeah, so I wasn't looking for that. And on May 11, I was out for a jog and I had this thought, you will marry Percy Tava. I'd never met Percy. Like I said, I didn't know who he was because he was the brother. Wait. And I knew that he was a Christian, but there was no part of me that was interested in marrying anybody.
So the first thing was kind of like, no, you've dialed the wrong number. Like, or actually, I think the first thing was, Satan, get behind me. This must be a. Like a fault to, like, distract me or something.
And anyway, then it just kept coming. And basically by the end of it, I realized that God was like, this is the one I have for you. And you're trying to reject it because you're worried what people think about you. And so I said, okay, God, if this is really you prove it. And then that day, I went to youth group, and he had come home for the winter holiday. Winter. Summer holidays to y', all. But we're on the other hemisphere, the winter holidays. And my boss, who is an Ivy missionary, had already talked to him because he was, like a solid Christian, and asked him to work with me in the youth group. So that's how now.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: And tell me this, Percy. When you were. Before you were a Christian, did your family have any religious background, or was it just totally secular?
[00:05:16] Speaker C: Well, you know, growing up in the African setup, you have this ancestral. So animus, spirits sort of belief, but then you kind of combine it with whatever else you think could work. So there was some kind of Christianity thing going on where my parents would visit different churches, but it was more seeking blessings than, you know, living a committed life following Christ.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: So how did you engage with the gospel? How did that happen?
[00:05:48] Speaker C: I was invited by a friend who went to a Baptist church.
We played basketball together in school, in high school, and so I visited. And what kept me going wasn't the preaching, wasn't the word that was shared. It was the music. I just. I love music. And so I kept going. I thought, this music is great, you know? So.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: And eventually then I had. I attended a youth seminar at the church.
And actually, that's where, for the first time, it really.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: And what age was that?
[00:06:23] Speaker C: That was 15.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: So 15. And. And by this time in 2000, how old were you?
[00:06:28] Speaker C: You were in college, so 2000, I was 20.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Okay. So when you get this revelation that God has a plan for, you've still not met him, is that correct?
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: And did you. Did you tell anybody?
[00:06:43] Speaker A: That was in the morning and then that after. So I went home, took a shower. I was out on a jog, went to church. And this taxi pulls up, and this guy gets out. And of course, I don't know him, but everybody's like, oh, Percy, you're home from university. You're home. And I'm like, that's Percy Tahoe, you know? And then, of course, my. My heart is like, what? I didn't think you're serious, you know? And then you, like. You feel like everybody can see that your face is red. And so you go hide in the one place that, you know at the church was the outhouse, which, like, totally stinks and everything. And I'm like, okay, get it?
And then, you know, the whole time trying to teach, I'm kind of like, looking, is that really good? And then I'll be trying to teach And. And then that day, I went home. Well, so because he'd said we were supposed to work together, I took him home because I used to take his sister and brother home anyway, and.
And then he started talking. And I could see this man, like, loves Jesus.
So my first thought was, like, I would have nothing in common with an African, like, God. Like, you know, and then as I got to know him, I'm like, this guy's, like, super holy. He would never even look at me, you know? And so anyway, then you can share what happened. Like, about. So we didn't talk at all. And then about two weeks later.
[00:07:46] Speaker C: Yeah, about two weeks later, I'm like, I'm having these feelings. And I'm like, again, I guess kind of like what Ashley said. I'm like, get behind me certain type of thing. Because from the time I became a Christian at 15, I had signed. I attended this true love ways, semi type of thing. So I made a pledge, right? And as you know, I promised God that I would not date until I knew it was the girl I was going to marry.
And I went a step further and I said I would not even kiss a girl until I knew it was the one, right?
So now I'm starting to have these feelings with this girl that I just met two weeks ago. And I'm like, this cannot be God, you know, because the thing I started questioning was like, she's from America. She's white. She's, you know, like. So I'm playing things in my mind. I'm like, okay, this is not never going to work. So then I'm thinking, maybe let me.
I'm gonna talk to her and tell her that I can't work with her anymore because I'm having these feelings. And we're supposed to be working together for three months before I go back to university. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna talk to her and just let her know that I'm having these feelings.
[00:08:56] Speaker C: And I was also gonna talk to her boss to say, I don't think Ashley and I can work together because of this. Because I didn't think. Yeah, because I didn't think she was the one.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Right, Right.
Tell me this. I know I can imagine. I grew up in.
So I can imagine in Tifton, Georgia, the sale that you would have to make to explain to everybody how this is God's will. But tell me, in Africa, how is it perceived in Africa for you to date a white girl?
[00:09:22] Speaker C: Oh, I mean, that's like, novelty.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: But not with his family. But, yeah, I'm just saying.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: They did.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah, we had to cancel our wedding. Like, we, we. So the first day he told them, it was right before we were about to go. Okay. So then as we began to say okay, like we got. So he told me that, like, I'm gonna talk to your boss and leave. And then I said, well, I had this vision, thought, I don't know, two weeks ago. And he said, but you're an American, you know, so then. Or that was that. So now we're like, okay, I guess God wants us to be together. Let's see where this goes. So that was about, you know, May. Ish. And then by October, we're really starting to now start to have feelings. We've been doing ministry together. He'd gone back to university.
And we're like, okay, this is going to go anywhere. I leave next July because two years. And then we started praying. Then God show us a sign that this is going to last longer. And the government called him and said that his grades had qualified him and they were paying him to go study in August. Like, I was living in July. He was living in August in Georgia Tech at the time.
It later got changed because of 9, 11 and some drug overdose with some Botswana students to Canada. But that was just like, okay, God, now you're so awful. Yeah, like, fully paid scholarship to Georgia Tech in August. I leave in July.
And so we by that point knew that God was calling us to be together.
So when he told his family in July of that year, before I left, just so that, like, we don't get married probably in. Because we thought if we're going to be there for four years, he would be in for four, we're probably going to end up getting married in that time. So he told them and.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: Yeah, and I, I think this. We later found out that for my parents, it was like, if he gets married to this girl, she's from America, he's gonna move to America. And most likely he's gonna also get his siblings to move to America and then we're just gonna be.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: And that's scary.
[00:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very scary. That's very scary. Like, so they're not Christians, so there's no.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: They're not processing it that way.
[00:11:21] Speaker C: Exactly. So.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: And tell me this.
And it's okay. There's no wrong answer here. I'm just wanting to know how it's perceived.
Is it perceived as an insult if you marry a white girl in Africa, or is it perceived that.
Is it insulting to the other girls in your Community, how is it perceived?
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah, that is interesting because the missionary actually took me when she found out about this, she took me to lunch and she said, we don't have many good, like, Christian guys. And you're taking one of the few Christian guys. I'm like, I'm not taking him. And she's like, no, like, you need to leave him for the Botswana leaves. You know, like, I'm like, it's not like, you know, that I'm. I went out and saw after this, so. So, yeah, but like, just to go back to Percy's dad's story. So Percy's dad. So remember, I had known them because I was reaching out with his siblings, you know, like taking them church. And so I was frequently in their house, even when Percy was not there. And so on the morning after Percy told him, his mom, like, didn't eat. And she just felt so deceived for a week. She was like, I'm not eating. This is awful. Anyway, and so Percy's dad, I saw him at the bus. So he was an alcoholic. So he didn't have a car at the time. I think he had wrecked a car.
And so I thought, should I pick him up? So I picked him up. He gets in the car, and then he's like, ashley, we've heard the news. He's like, we love you as a daughter. We do not want you as a doctor in law. Please leave my son alone.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: So, like, we had the missionary saying, like, leaving for the African League as father, being like, we don't want you. So it was definitely. My parents are actually okay with him because he's like, solid, godly guy. That's what we want. We want somebody who loves Jesus, his parents.
That's where the problem was.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: We pastoring. When I was a youth pastor in Alabama, my first church ministry position, we would have in that community, it was black or white. And then we had some of the black students begin to come to our youth group.
And everybody, basically, when it became a conversation piece, they would say, we're fine with them coming and meeting Jesus, learning the Bible, but, you know, eventually there's going to be feelings.
And I'm like, so we had to work through that theologically.
And surprisingly, they had really thought through why they were against it. And I just didn't buy it. I didn't see theologically any issue with it. Scripture says, must be equally yoked together, believers in Christ.
But interestingly, when I became a pastor, my second church, it was in Huntsville, I never had a black, white Issue. It was Indian.
There was. And the Indians that moved to Alabama had grown up in a Christian context and they'd never been Hindu, but that was the perception. And so we had to kind of cross the bridge there. Here in North Florida, we've not really had that issue. It's just not been a. I think, I guess probably culturally things have progressed some and, and they've, they've seen so many good examples like you guys where it's worked and but, but I, I know that I can understand that fear that a family would have that anyone from a different culture could either take your son away or could just change everything. Oh yeah. About what you perceive as family.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: Absolutely. I mean you, you realize a lot of it is fear based, right? You know, it's not really like you said. Yeah, people do have certain perceptions and they already have the answers of why theological does not. Right. But most of the time it's only formulated by how they perceive things.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:10] Speaker C: Until they are challenged. And you really. And like you're saying also maybe they start seeing some examples.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: Where it's working is like, okay, this could work. I mean like we got married in 2004. So 21 years back then was very different from today.
[00:15:27] Speaker C: You know, we had to fight so many things back then. There was so much resistance then from, you know, just where you are within the circles and the town and whatever. There was so much convincing to do. You feel like you're always having to prove something. But until you let go and you realize, you know what, this is not my job to prove anything.
Let me just keep seeking Christ, following Christ. And we just as long as we're united and we're serving Christ, eventually we just figured, well, God will just do the convincing, whatever it is that he needed to do. And that's exactly what.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: That's awesome.
I don't know. Like, I know the difference from South Africa to Egypt. Africa is a massive continent and culturally it changes a lot. Tell me about where you guys were stay have been stationed at most of the time.
What is the culture like?
[00:16:16] Speaker A: There's Botswana.
So, so basically Botswana is. They value keeping quiet. And you don't. You don't argue, you don't. It's a very like respectable culture. But now the problem with that is it's breeding this like massive.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Inner turmoil. So that the depends. There's two statistics. I think one is done by Botswana and one is done by, I think the United nations. I heard 67% or 70% of the women are raped and abused in their homes.
By a brother, an uncle, a father. 84% of the homes are single mom homes. So that means only 16% of, on statistics, Botswana thing would say that there's even a father figure there. And that doesn't mean that those 16% are good fathers. That just means that there's a male that shares an address.
So you're probably talking about 6% of the people in Botswana have a loving father figure.
And then we're also considered the rape capital of the world. And we're considered, I think is like the fifth most unhappiest out of like 154 countries or something in the world. I can't remember how many. We're like 147 or something like that. So it's just a very unhappy. So one of the reasons we do the ministry we do is because we're trying to help. But the interesting thing is that 87% of Botswana would say they're Christians.
So how do you reconcile that? I've said a prayer, I've gone down front, I go to church, I. But I'm corrupt because corruption is the name of the game in Africa, in Botswana. And then you've got this abuse and you've got drinking, of course, becomes a natural byproduct of living like that. You end up doing drugs and alcohol because that's kind of how you cope with.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: So you cope.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah, so you've got this like huge substance abuse problem. Huge abuse problem. They call it gender based violence.
And yet we call ourselves Christians. So what, what we did when we started our TV show was we realized that if we're going to try to fix this problem, then we've got to, we can't just preach at them because they've been to church. They, they know the right answer, but then they think that you say that in public and then you live that in private.
So we allowed people to ask us any question about our life and marriage with the idea not to like say we're arrived. If we had a fight, we'll tell you about it on tv, but really just say this is what a healthy Christian family looks like. Because we're trying to lead people to understand what it looks like to die to yourself and walk in Christ in your parenting, in your money, in your, you know, like the way you don't cheat on each other. And some of those things people are like, what? You don't cheat on each other?
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Huh?
[00:18:45] Speaker A: That's not possible. And so we're trying to explain how does that happen? So that's, that's the culture that we're responding to.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And I mean, you realize a lot of the social ills that we have.
[00:18:58] Speaker C: Like Ashley said, obviously they must be also in the church if the statistics are so high.
And you realize it's because these ones who have gone ahead of us, who call themselves Christians, who say, we're Christians, they really haven't had role models in front of them saying, this is how it's done. Yeah, they might have had the word of God, but it really hasn't taken root because they don't know what to do. I mean, like, if you think about my father's generation, for example.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: Their parents.
[00:19:33] Speaker C: Worked in South Africa in the mines. And so what happened with that was they had families back in Botswana, but then they go to the mines and they start other families there, and they are only coming to Botswana to visit. You know, the wife left in Botswana and the children. And so that's what you can see. My father's generation grows with that.
That type of father figure that's never around is just gonna come to bring some money for food or whatever it is. And so what do they learn? So even if somebody becomes a Christian from my dad's generation, yes, they can read it off the Bible of what a father should be acting like and what a husband should be like, but they never had that role model. So you can see that.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: And that's the power of media and giving that example. I came to Christ through radio, so media was always important to me, and I saw the power of it personally.
Charles Stanley up in Atlanta heard the gospel through intouch and became a pastor. Have done this for over 30 years. And so what we're doing today is what you guys are doing in Africa. I can't imagine navigating it there and total ignorance. So help me out. When it comes to Botswana. Is there like a affiliate, like a network television station? Are you buying time?
[00:20:54] Speaker A: So what we did was when we felt like the Lord was saying to do it well. So I guess I should back up. So this book I wrote, and it was a Bible study book, just teaching people to read the Bible because of the fact they're in church, but they're not reading the Bible. And this isn't everybody. This is not a blanket statement.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Sure, Right.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Obviously, they're like, amazing, solid believers. So I don't want us to sound like.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: No, I understand.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: But anyway, so this book they used in the schools, all the schools, as a character development tool. And it's just a Bible study.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Let me ask before. So the government And I know nation to nation in Africa, some governments are very Christianized. Is Botswana. Is it in their founding documents as a Christian nation?
[00:21:36] Speaker A: I don't know if it's.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: You could say. I mean, you could say that it's not like.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: It's like homosexuality outlawed in Botswana for now.
[00:21:46] Speaker C: It's always been.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: But the reason I bring that up is because we have a very politically engaged congregation and our viewers are very engaged and there's a warning that I would want to give. They have this perception that if we can just Christianize our documents, that everything will be fine. And it doesn't work that way.
I mean, Great Britain, especially right now, they have extremely Anglican lingo in their documents, but it is a secular country.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: So, like, to give you an example, every time I go to a government meeting, they'll start it off with prayer, like. And it's. It's like. And sometimes we, the missionaries will start, you know, going in, okay, we got this presentation. They're like, you didn't pray? You're like, oh, you know. But it's so religious, you know, not.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Necessarily relationship, but it doesn't necessarily move the needle.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: No, that's right.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: And that's what. That's. That's a warning. Because I can talk to someone here who's conservative, Bible believing, and they get this idea, if we can just get the city government to promote all the things that we're into, all the problems would go away. If it's not from the heart, it's just a legalistic thing that doesn't move the needle.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: The one thing it does, I will say, just to speak to that is it allows you the platform to speak freely. Like, we get to preach the gospel freely on government tv, on in schools, and there's nobody coming against that. So now the opportunity is there because Christianized. So that actually is a.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: And they would put your curriculum into their schools because they know they have a problem with the AIDS epidemic.
So they're wanting to curb that.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: It could be an answer, you know, and they're not against that. You know, it's not. So in that sense, there is a benefit to Christianizing, but then if you're going to lead to behavioral change, you've got to take that platform and use it to bring glory to God and teach people how to live a life where they're crucified to their self and they live in Christ.
So when you asked about, like, how we got this on tv, so the tv. So this Bible study was in the schools, which we raised the money here to print it because they wanted it, but they didn't have the money for it. Right. Raised the money. Here we have a 513C, operates out of Tipton, Georgia.
And then that led to me being invited to schools and to teach, and all this was just freely donated just to help people. And then the.
Then the national newspaper was like, well, could you teach not just students, but could you write a newspaper article every week, a column teaching the gospel? Like, what does the Bible say about rape? What does the Bible say about corruption, about false prophets? So it's trying to.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Are you, at this point, imb missionary? Are you independent?
[00:24:20] Speaker A: No, we. When I married Percy, they said that. That there was a rule somewhere that said, I wondered. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So I guess to go back, they. So we. We went to. So he got a scholarship in Canada.
And so the IMB had hired me right out of the journeyman program to do what they called a missions mobilizer. So they wanted me to be the face of missions, and they paid me to go travel around America to speak at these big conferences.
And so when I was speaking at a conference in Gloriado, New Mexico, he was already in Ottawa, Canada, like, across the country. And when I stepped down, there was a man named Salt. And he came up to me and said, as you were speaking, I felt like the Lord said, you're supposed to start a church in Ottawa, Canada. I'm talking about African missions there. And so I was like, well, we've been praying for an opportunity. And he went to church that Sunday, and we did not talk.
And that Sunday he went to a church, and the guy was saying, we've got a man named Salt who's traveling in the States and looking for somebody to start a church in Ottawa. And so he was like, I think my girlfriend at the time would be great for that. And so Monday, Salt and Rick talked, and they both realized, it's the same gal. It's the same girl. So they wrote a job description with NAMM North American Mission Board for me to go to Canada and start a church. So I did church planning under North American Mission Board for four years. And.
And then we felt like we finished that. That we. We knew that God was calling us back to Africa, but we thought, let's take two years in America just so you can know my world, my culture. Because he'd met people at the wedding, like, and I'm about to move back to Botswana. So it was like, we. We don't have any debt. We don't have any, you know, responsibility, right? Now no kids, no whatever. So we went to America for two years with the understanding that we'll finish this and go back to Botswana. And thought as IMB missionaries because I had been with the Southern Baptist and when I was in school I was a youth minister. So I mean I'd been working as a Southern Baptist youth minister, intern in high school, imb, journeyman missions, mobilizer name. And then when we applied they said, oh, I'm sorry, like Rule 569B, you know, whatever, I don't know, says that he you can't be a missionary if you're married to a national. And we were like, but you spend so much money on trying to teach the culture to Americans and how to dress and how to. But they just said it was a rule. So we then had to pray about like, okay, God, we thought we heard you say go back to Botswana, but this door is closed. And it was just clear that like Abraham, you know, when God tells Abraham, Abraham, leave the land I've told you and go to the land I'll show you. And I just had this thought where God was just like, at least I've shown you the land to go to, you know. And I didn't say he had to go to imd. And now we look back and it was really hard. So he had a green card, he was making like $130,000 as a software engineer because that's what he just graduated.
And we had by that point my nine month old baby girl, our first daughter, and the Lord was like, go. So we quit his job, had to throw away the green card because you're no longer a permanent resident and got a one way ticket out of our savings and had no job, no house, no car, no support system, nothing back in Botswana. But a clear call that God said go back and work with families and got there.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: In his parents room, like his old childhood bedroom for like, yeah, like three months, just saying, God, we're here now what? And so it was basically very hard because now I wasn't a missionary anymore, you know, so I was African housewife. But no support system in the heart of a missionary. But no funding, no support system, no platform because now I'm by myself with these babies, you know. And then soon after I had my son who had a lot of brain damage and a lot of issues there.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: So it was he born in Botswana?
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Yes. And like had I been an IMB missionary, they would have flown me to Johannesburg. But giving birth in Botswana, I mean obviously many girls do it and it's not a problem, but it subjected me to some things I probably wouldn't have. And he was a victim of medical negligence. And that's a whole nother story. But you can. There's a book called Conquering the Giants on Amazon about that story of how we end up having to flee the country and get South Africa to save his life. And.
And that actually, interesting enough, when I. When he was a year. And I wrote the book Conquering the Giants, which was about just not so much the medical negligence, but the journey of when. When you go into labor with a healthy baby boy and everything changes because of other people's fault, how do you forgive? How do you trust God in that? How do you, as a couple work through, like, life just not giving you lemons? Not lemonade, you know, And.
And that book is what really put the spotlight on me and allowed me to. Because then everybody wants to talk to the white lady in Botswana who has the same problems they're having. But I'm talking about something they don't normally talk about because they.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: So it's a human interest type thing.
So. So from there, how does a television show there work as far as. Did you have to get sponsorships?
[00:28:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:57] Speaker C: So I think before you answer that, I just want to go back a little to the whole IMB thing. We look back now and we're like. Because we were both very disappointed and angry at the time. Like, why would we not go with IB that's who we know.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: We.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: We think this would work. But of course, God always knows best.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: You realize later you're like, wow, God, this is awesome.
It actually had to be that way so that we could be independent of any, you know, like, the ministry we do now.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: And that was my first thought. That's not the way the IMB would do that.
[00:29:36] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, like, if you're working with. With an organization like that, they're gonna have one way of doing things, and that's the way that they're gonna do it.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: And. And we were in the whole country.
[00:29:47] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: And we would have to work with Baptist.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: I mean, it has gone all over the place. And we get, like she said, we get to work with all kinds of churches. There are no restrictions. It's just, what is God saying? And we just go with that. And so that has been a huge blessing.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: You know, we. We've had. We had a missionary couple who they had retired. They wanted to go back on the field, and. And they didn't hit the weight.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Restriction, so they Were not able to be reassigned. And there's part of me that just, these are great people. We need them in the field. But. But there's. I understand that there's a reason why they do things the way that they do it. And they're the. They are the health insurance for these missionaries. And, you know, I understand the reason for it, but that's also why we like to work with, you know, independent missionaries as well.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: And so bring me up to the point. How did it transition from the book to the.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Okay, so then the book led to all these schools. Call me. And then that led to the government not it's a private newspaper, it's a national newspaper saying, could you write an article and teach this? And so then of course I was like, can you do. You can pay something? Because so far he's doing all this. I'm just sad. Hobby missionary. He's still working software engineer with IBM. The computer guys not imb.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: And so.
So then they said, no, we can't pay. But then just the missionary heart me is like, okay, fine, I'll do it. And so I began writing for Botswana and then Swaziland and Zimbabwe and Zambia and Malawi were like, we're can't write for our country as well.
So for three years, I had a newspaper column where I would teach the Bible to five countries every week. My column, you know, just whatever I want to say about Christ, just teaching the Bible. And so that led to a lot of radio, newspaper, you know, teach about false prophets or absent parents. And so somebody would say, oh, can you come be a guest on our show? Can you be a guest on our show? And it just got to be so often that. And of course, all that was free. Like, it's just come be a guest. That the government made a joke one day and was like, you should have your own TV show. You're here all the time. You know, I'm a missionary, I'm not a TV producer, you know. And we went home and just really jokingly said we lit a Wednesday night Bible study in our house. And I just kind of joking, I was like, guess what? You know, they said today at btv, BTV was Botswana Television. You asked about Syndicate. It's the government channel is the biggest one because it's free for everybody in the country.
And this guy in the Bible study who we didn't know was a. Was like, I do weekend, like videography. I could do it. And if you guys can buy the cameras. And so we took a step of faith, raised Money in America and bought the stuff and produced this TV show. And the government liked it so much that they actually. So the news was 7 to 8 every night. But we were telling them, if we're going to give you the show for free, that is going to help with these social ills by helping the family, then you've got to put a prom slot. Like, we can't raise money. Give it to you. And then you put it midnight.
So they said, we don't have any prom slots. And we said, well, that's our only condition. You don't have to pay us anything for it. But it's got to be at a time where people can watch it. So they changed the news from 7 to 7:30. And then our show became 7:30 to 8 on Sunday.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: And that was February 14th. 2020 is now. Do you know what happened in March of 2020? Wow. So now everybody had to watch the news. And then our country actually locked people down. So now you're locked in your house, you have to watch the news, and then you have to watch our show because you're locked.
So the Lord used Covid to actually like. So. So it started off with conquering the giants, and that led to all these people coming to ask me for help with brain damage and with physical therapy, and I end up homeschooling. And. And So I had 10 years of kind of being in the trenches of just making relationships. Who later, when God now took us to the point, you know, now like 17 years later, where he's putting this ministry on this. A lot of the people that are in leadership of the country, they've been in my house and I've been helping them with their homeschooling or their kids or their gardening or their sleep training. And so now, like Percy said, you look back and you say, okay, God. So you didn't allow this because you wanted to be bigger than we could have done here. You didn't allow the ministry to take off when we got there because you needed us to have a family that we could have a. Like now when we talk about things, they're like, oh, I know they're telling the truth because we were in the incubator for that time. So. So then that led to the TV show, and then the TV show led to groups. We would, you know, have this TV show where we were sitting on stage and asking questions and people started watching the show and then having like, talk parties. Like, oh, let's watch that and talk about what they talk about. Yeah. And so Then they. They form these groups organically. Like, that was. We didn't plan. Some people ask us like, oh, that's a great strategy. We're like, it was totally God strategy. So then they said, can you write down everything you say in the TV show? And so then that was this. This is just the script of the show. So we literally press pause. What question did they ask? What answer did we give? And then the government, this is now during COVID time, was like, if. Because this is now fighting the social ills, we'll pay to print this and distribute this for everybody who's studying this because it's helping them stop the social. So the government then began to pray, and the vice president of the country actually paid to translate this into the local language so that more people could understand it. And then leaders of villages would watch these groups grow and grow. And so then they started calling us and saying, hey, can you come to our village and teach what you taught on TV, but can you. So that was 13 episodes.
So can you take 13 days and every day, like, teach us about communication and then teach us about how to fair proof your marriage and then teach about parenting and then about money management and. And that's how these campaigns are.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: We go. An unreal open door.
[00:35:12] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: You know, I can't imagine that happening here, but it's. That's unreal that the Lord opened that kind of door for you when. What was your funding mechanism like? How much did it cost you to produce, if you don't mind me asking?
[00:35:25] Speaker A: $150,000 to produce a full season of TV that was ready, by their standards, to go on.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: And that includes everything. Everything from, like, your camera equipment, lighting. So you were able to rent a studio.
[00:35:40] Speaker C: Yes, that's right.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Your lighting, microphones, everything.
[00:35:43] Speaker C: Production, everything included.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: How many episodes is a season?
[00:35:46] Speaker A: 13.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: 13.
[00:35:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: And it also included, like, billboards on the. Like some of.
Some of the.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: The marketing and all that.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: Yeah, like everything was included.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Something I looked up when I was researching.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: People recognized the billboard. It was like she was known as the billboard lady.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: I wish I could find it. I wish I could find it. Yeah.
So we talked last night. What we do when. When people come on this program is I'll get on grok, which is artificial intelligence, and let it do some of our work. We've got a lot going on, and it. It gives us these sheets of information on our guests. And so it told us about Ashley Talbot show.
Told us about. But it. But it really emphasized. Yeah, her billboards are Very recognizable and all this kind of stuff.
How hard was the sale back in? Is most of your funding coming from Tifton?
[00:36:44] Speaker A: Well, America. I mean, not necessarily Tifton.
[00:36:46] Speaker C: I mean it started from Tifton and.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Then, yeah, by the grace of God, I think, I think that's been probably the neatest thing about doing ministry is very scary because God being independent missionaries. So okay, I should back up. And we started this in 2020. Percy was still doing engineering. So we were just raising money just to do that project.
And then when we go out to these campaigns, we're calling them campaigns because that's what they call them. They call them family building campaigns. When we go for 18 days, like, you know, so what we do is. And again, this was, this was kind of a fluke, not really by God's term, but the government wouldn't allow you to have more than 50 people meeting at a time. So. So there was like a thousand people that wanted to come. So we would train 50 in the morning on one chapter and they would go out and train 20 each on one chapter and then they come back the next day. We debrief and then we train. Chapter two, you go out and so.
So all that time Percy was working as an engineer and I'm doing all this and he would take off by that point he'd start his own company.
So he would take off and we'd go. But June 2022, that's when. And we had to form a board of trustees because in order to do this repeatable in Botswana, you have to have an. Or a not what they call non profit organization.
So I already had that here, we had that there. So in June 2022, that's when Percy quit. The board of trustees told him this is now becoming too big for you to be working a full time job and doing this on the side. Your family's not healthy. And we're literally called Healthy Families Foundation.
And so up until that point, he totally covered us. Like we didn't raise any money apart from just a project here.
So after that, that's when we had to start raising funds. Was only in June 20th. I mean, December 2022 actually we lived on savings from June until December because we came back to America that Christmas and now started fundraising.
So that's how the fundraising. But it's been interesting. What I started when I started this was to say when God calls you to something, it's not always the richest. Like it's definitely been a pay cut. But it's, it's. He Provides. And I can't really explain to you how like we try to have a prayer letter and we try to do social media, but really I think it's ultimately the Lord that lays it like some of our biggest gifts have been like people that we knew. No. And God just lays it on their heart to say I want to partner with that. And so I can't really tell you our funding strategy because the things we think are going to work leave like no fruit. And then something that we. Somebody had a conversation with somebody and then that.
[00:39:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And that has been the most difficult thing for me because I'm like, I like to work sometimes overwork.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: And I like to be able to work and provide for my family. And I felt also it was the thing, the right thing to do was also work so that I could sponsor the work of God, you know, like the ministry. But then like she said, you know, we came to a point where it was like, oh, this is kind of, this is hypocritical that I'm working so much and I have this family and she's turning into a single mom because I'm out here working. So by the time when I joined her, I didn't realize how hard it was going to be to fundraise. And it's just like, and also you feel like you're asking something from somebody that's that, that for me that has been, that has been the hardest part of ministry.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: I can raise money for you. Yeah, but it's hard to raise it for me.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: And that's what we found. It's like it's easier for us to raise for like a project, like a project of then our family or something because it's, it's. You feel guilty like, especially for him because he's a software engineer. He's a project manager with Prince too and project management, like America, like pmp. I mean he has like, he's like, I can, I can work. Like I'm not a, like, what do you call it, you know, somebody who's disabled, you know, couldn't work. Like I'm an able bodied man and I'm. Yet we're asking people to. And God is still working on this with us with understanding that this is the work I've given you. And a worker is worth his wages and we can't. You can't do the work I've called you to do if you're always doing.
[00:40:42] Speaker C: Yeah. And I mean the last two years I've started learning and letting go and allowing God and We've experienced so many blessings because you realize, you know your calling and you stay within your lane and let God do right, you know, his work and what he's going to do is he has called us to be on the field, on the ground, but then he has also called other people to partner with us and they're.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Joy the funding that allows so they're just as much partners, but they don't have to come to Botswana.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: Well, we deal with it. I can honestly say I've worked on dairy farms, I've worked in a plant job.
I work far harder as a pastor.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: But people have the impression, oh, you just work on Sunday, you know, and.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: That'S, that is very true. And it becomes, becomes very difficult sometimes to even like when you come home, like to fundraise or something. Then like you like when we tell people we're coming to Fernandina, like, oh, you're going to the beach. Yeah, we're actually going to do, you know, like.
[00:41:45] Speaker C: But it's because they don't see the late nights and whatever else.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Have you, have you been able to take the skills that you learned in coding and all that and use it for ministry?
[00:41:54] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:41:55] Speaker B: What kind of ways? How did, is it more in the technical side of it or what?
[00:42:00] Speaker C: It's both. I mean like, because I'm a project manager, you know, and I've done construction, I've done technology, project management.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:09] Speaker C: Those skill sets, they translate right into any sector. And so I was able to take that and when this non profit was a baby and we're lost and we didn't know how to set structures around it, whatever, you know, have a strategy, have this, that's what I was able to, that's where I was able to use my skills.
And then of course in this digital era there's a lot.
Yeah. So, you know, and so I've been able to utilize a lot of that where I'm either doing it directly or even right now. Like they, you know, there are guys that I'm actually training to take that fully because now ministry is so much and our plate is so full, I can't keep doing all the digital stuff. But I do have younger guys that are coming up and they love it and they are passionate about it and I'm able to train them because I know how it works and you know, so definitely that's awesome.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: All those skills, especially with younger people to understand they, they have this perception that ministry is constantly academic, Study, prayer, preach and, and that's, that is, you know, the heart of the ministry. But so much of it is, you know, it breaks my heart if on Monday morning it's over.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: So I want a sermon. We work so hard on the sermons. I want them to go as far as they can go.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:29] Speaker B: And so that's why we do radio and television and all these other things. We want to multiply it, you know. And that's a lot of work.
[00:43:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that is.
[00:43:37] Speaker B: If it's just the preaching, it's a lot of work. But then you add all that other to it.
And having those skill sets is so important.
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Where do you see like. And I know so much of it. It seems like the Lord just kind of brought you into. But do you have a vision for where to go now next? What does the next five to ten years look like?
[00:43:57] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think the. You just touched on it as you're talking about the salmon and then also you're wanting it to go further.
That's really where we are. And we're like, whatever it is that you teach, you know, the Bible and is so practical, but we don't realize because we don't live it out. And so the whole ministry is based on this, has to work Monday to Sunday, Sunday to Right. Like it has to be practical. If the gospel is not practical, then it's not doing what it's meant to do.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: It's not transformational.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: It's not transformational. And so, yeah, you know, like the community campaigns that I actually talked about or the community workshops, what we are seeing is we are raising leaders. We use a train of trainer model. And like she said, it wasn't our. Our original strategy was a God strategy because Covid problem where we are forced to train 50 at a time in any community. And because of that, it helped us to be able to train the best leaders within a community. Because then the community, you know, whoever the community leaders are, you just say, okay, give us your 50 best leaders. Then we train those and then they're able to produce, you know, the whole second Timothy 2:2 model, you know, entrust into reliable men who would then, you know, so like that multiplication is really what has grown this ministry. And so what we're seeing is as you entrust to these community leaders who will then reproduce.
That has been great.
[00:45:32] Speaker C: The community campaigns we do. We go to a community for 18 days and we teach the 13 topics. So the 13 topics would teach over 13 working days. So it ends up being 18 days because you're including the tools weekends in.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: Between and opening ceremonies and Stuff like that.
[00:45:46] Speaker C: It's exciting. You see lives being changed, but then we realize it's not enough because, you know, then how do you sustain the change?
And so then we, God blessed us with the opportunity to do a follow up program. So we have booklets, 11 booklets based on the identity of Christ, where we now deepen the roots. Because, you know, over 18 days, yes, you are teaching people, they're excited.
[00:46:13] Speaker A: So these are all different.
[00:46:14] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: Like this is how your identity changes, is how you parent. This is how your identity should change, how you expect things in life. This is how your identity change, how you communicate and how you prepare for marriage. So this is like created out of following up from these people, finding out that if somebody didn't have a father their whole life and now all of a sudden they become a Christian, they get that, but they don't know how to keep going. Then it's like, well, who you are now should change how you parent your children now. And it should change like how you meet the needs of your spouse. You shouldn't be like cheating on them anymore. You know, you should. So like. And it should not allow you to beat somebody. Like, you should not be abusive anymore. So this series was born to teach people what your identity, how that should change how you act in practical speaking.
[00:46:56] Speaker C: So, so that's now the discipleship program. And we do this program for 12 months. And the idea is if somebody went through the 18 day campaign or workshop, they were transformed and they want to deepen their roots. Then we lead them through those 12 months of discipleship.
[00:47:15] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:47:16] Speaker C: After the 12 months. And the hope is this person is a disciple who can also produce other.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: Disciples, starting to multiply the ones we trained these and then they've trained those and now it's just. And so you asked where we're going. So one of the visions that God has given Percy and I is the next step like the one that we're actually, I would say our main focus right now is we believe that God has called us now build what we're calling the restoration center. And so we currently we've been going out, so we go out, we meet these people, we train them, then we kind of from our home base, we, we do have an office, we have staff now by the grace of God, we have seven full time staff which we have to raise money for them and us and the ministry. It can be overwhelming sometimes. And so but now we feel like the Lord is saying to have this center. And the view of this center would be a place where These leaders can come like twice a year and we keep pouring into them, so they keep pouring out. The view would be to have these domestic abuse ladies come for like two weeks and just like I have a girl right now that I'm working with and she was, you know, into drugs, abused as a child. She now has two daughters who are cutting themselves, burning themselves, and she's living at home with her mom because she doesn't have a job.
And she's amazing. Like she's been transformed by the power of Christ. But every day her mom keeps, you know, she's 30, upper 30 girl living at home with 18, 14 year old daughters. So her mom is always, you know, she's treating her very abusively because she still sees her as. So she's not able to take these daughters and try to break the cycle because she can. Keeps hearing it. And I just would love to be able to take her to the restoration center for two weeks with her daughters and just have two weeks. Just to not have your mom yelling about how worthless you are. To be in this house at 39 years old and you know, and just try to like pour into them. And yes, they might have to go back, but they could go back refreshed and renewed with an understanding of what could be, you know, and then take in fathers who don't know anything, put them in like a week of boot camp and bring in American mission teams that can work with them. And just like currently, if we were to do anything, we have to go somewhere. So you have to stay in hotels and it becomes very expensive. But if we have our own place, then okay, the upfront cost is a lot. But then for generations long past us. So Percy bought a farm really close to Capital City for us years ago. And we felt like the Lord said to give a hectare, which is like two and a half acres of that to the foundation. So it's not even our name anymore. So just nobody can even say because that's the other thing is when you're raising funds, you always feel like, total. Yeah. So it's in the foundation name. And now we're trying to raise the funds to build that. And we have, we need about 500,000 total. And we've raised 186,400. So we're. And we need about 300,000 just to build the building and then we'll need about 200,000 to furnish it and develop the ground. So we're praying during this time home we'll get the extra 120,000 to be able to break ground in February when we go back.
[00:50:09] Speaker B: Well, maybe we'll pray and we'll put out links to how they give.
So, you know, all of that, make sure we have all of that so we can. If somebody watching, we're getting somewhere around like 120,000 views on these now. So it's a pretty, pretty good exposure. And if somebody wants to contribute, we'll make sure that they have that, that ability.
[00:50:29] Speaker B: What when, you know, when Christ gave the Great Commission to go into all the world, it's pretty straightforward, as you said. We're to go make disciples baptizing all that.
The disciples, the early apostles and disciples.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Interpreted that Great Commission by planting churches. So everywhere Paul's going, he's start doing ministry, forming churches.
They're practicing, they're preaching the word, they're practicing the ordinances, all this stuff.
And.
[00:51:01] Speaker B: This is just an honest pastor type question. Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to see it from a pastor's perspective. In Botswana, we've got these missionaries that obviously God's using.
Doors are being opened for them.
How does that coordinate back to the local church of Botswana and are they supportive?
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: How is it working?
[00:51:22] Speaker C: That's the right question.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: So when we go into these communities, we first of all work with. So there's two main overview bodies. One is called Evangelical Fellowship Botswana and the other is called Minister Fraternal. And they're basically just pastoral groups of church leaders.
And so we always before. So we get invited to a community, usually by a secular leader, a chief, a member of parliament, a minister, not minister, like a cabinet minister, presidential minister.
So usually those are the people that invite us. But when we get invited to a place, then we always reach out to the local church and we're like, we're going to be coming and we're going to be sharing the gospel and the government, by the grace of God, all the army and the police and the teachers and the doctors, they will be invited by the government to come and allowed to leave work for 18 days to come to this campaign. But when we go out, when they get trained in the morning, so like the last campaign, we had 543 in the morning, and then those 543 were training. 5005583 every day for those, all those days of teaching, like he said, It's 12 days of teaching to opening, closing ceremony and weekends. So 18 days. Yeah.
Anyway, so we're like, come alongside of us so that when that police officer goes to the bar, you go with him and you get to like help him. And then when we leave after 18 days of getting to know the thousands, I mean, we haven't had a campaign with less than 3,500, 5,000 in three years. I mean, we have thousands that come to these. Then you can pull them into your local churches. So you use us for evangelism, like.
[00:52:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:52:58] Speaker A: And then walk alongside of us for discipleship and then find and meet these people that you probably don't have ability to normally meet. So, so, and then this program is done specifically with pastors.
So this is now a discipleship, a discipleship program which is done where we brought pastors to the capital city, trained them for a week, and then sent them back out. And now we just followed them up. So we provided the books. There was a church in Highlands and UNESCO United nations that actually helped pay for this, which is, that's awesome.
And so, and this is like an in depth biblical, like biblical discipleship. And so that's done to be in the local church. And that's the vision is to keep raising up these pastors that we just pour into and equip and challenge and encourage and unite. Like, because that's another problem is there's not a lot of things that unite the pastors. But now they are centered on this one thing. And they don't see this as competition because we're just trying to strengthen families. We're not trying to teach about whether you should speak in tongues, you shouldn't speak in tongues, whether you should cross your, you know, our theology is safe. We're just saying die to yourself and walk in Christ and be intentional.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: Yeah. So we work with the local church.
[00:54:10] Speaker C: And that, that, that has been great. And God helped us learn that lesson early on.
And it's been a strategy that we have intentionally tried to use is partner with the local church. If this ministry is going to be sustainable and these lives are going to continue to change, then we have to partner with the local church. Because we can't be in all the places all at the same time. But every place we go to or minister and there's always a local church.
And one of the, you know, the gaps that we realized early on in our, when the ministry started was a lot of our pastors, local pastors need a lot of support.
[00:54:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:54:50] Speaker C: You know, whether it could be funding or just even just theologically being theologically sound. You know, a lot of them, yes, they feel called to ministry, but, but they really haven't had going back to how we Started this whole conversation. Like they really haven't had proper discipleship or somebody to, you know, to say, this is my role model. This is how it's done.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:55:10] Speaker C: And so you still have even some of the pastors, some of these younger pastors, not all of them, of course, that, you know, are still participating in the same social ills that you were talking about.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: Sex, marriage, or like, or they just get so busy doing ministry that they never spend time with their family.
And you're like, but if you can't, the Bible says if you can't, you know, manage your own household, you don't have a business managing. Like, there's a correlation with how you run your home and how you run your ministry and the blessings that God wants to give you. Come when you surrender and trust him, that you don't have to be running around like a headless chicken. Like, you should be making time to spend with your wife and your kids. You don't need to be the same absent father that the world is, you know, so some of that is not that they don't know it. I mean, it's not that they're trying to be bad.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: No, they're. They're biblically literate. There's been a, an interesting dynamic missionally in Africa because the Gospel has been in Africa 2000 years. You know, it came to Africa first, but there's not been, you know, you know, this from, from your journeyman work.
You watch the, the paradigm of a life cycle of missions. So it goes from, you know, the initial contact, churches established to where they're producing their own theology, their own worship music, you know what I'm saying? And there's not, there hasn't been per capita the amount of theological theology and materials exported from Africa that you would expect because of the saturation at this point. And there does seem to be like, there's been a disconnect from how do you flesh this, this out, you know, and, and I think as whether it's a more mature mission field like the States or some that's had a lot of theological training and produced a lot of material. When you go into a place like Africa, it's. You're not, it's not apples to apples. You can't hold them to the same standard that you would expect here in the States. You've got to start where you're at exactly. And work, work toward that. And so, you know, we're grateful for people like you guys that are helping, helping to do that. And God's obviously opened the door and blessed you with it.
I'm curious, have you figured out ways to measure success and analytics with it? Oh, yeah, I would think that would be something that you would be strong in.
[00:57:28] Speaker C: Yeah. No, so, and, and, and to tie in into what we just talked about, I mean, it's when you realize that this work that you do, like Christianity has to be practical and Christianity can save, you know, Africa as well. So how do you make it work within the African context, within the African culture? And that's what that, you know, when we measure ourselves in the future to say, have we been successful? We want to see, you know, the Bible coming off the pages and being practical in people's lives who profess to be Christians within the African context. And we believe it's possible.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: And that should eventually curb some of the numbers. Exactly.
[00:58:18] Speaker A: So that's why.
[00:58:18] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: So. So one of the things. So the government, by the grace of God has paid for a lot of this work. I mean a lot of this work. And so they don't pay for anything that you don't give them reports.
[00:58:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: So we have to keep demographic evidence of like who how many young people, how many men, how many women. But we also have to do surveys on the first day.
We have I think seven, what they call key performance areas. It's parenting, eight communication, conflict resolution, divorce and marriage, substance, substance abuse, gender based violence, which is domestic abuse, money management, parenting. I don't know if there's absent parenting and parenting. Anyway, there's like so, so we do just measurables, measurables of like so how many times in a week do you do this? And then six months later we go back and we're like, how many times? You know, so it's specific. And then we also have a follow up team at our office that's part of our staff that keeps calling the leaders on a weekly basis to find out their testimonies and how they're doing. So we have like a book about a huge book of testimonies of just how your life changed. And then we also, by the grace of God last year, so we've been doing that six months with all the campaigns that. So that's 10 different studies have been done. And that's with independent people that's not with us. But last year something really. So that's 10 those. But then last year something happened where the government actually paid $70,000 for independent principal research or with four data analysts, I don't know, research assistants that went back to all the places we've been and they did a six month study of the long term impact on the behavioral changes. So they did the surveys, but they also did what they call key informant interviews. So they went to the social workers, the police and the chiefs, which are like the leaders of the village, and say, have you seen a difference in the people that went through this campaign versus this? And the results were like, and this is good.
[01:00:11] Speaker C: This was going back to 2020, right past five years.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: And then they also did.
[01:00:16] Speaker B: That's so important, focus groups.
[01:00:18] Speaker A: So they did focus groups because we keep data. So we have, we've done this with 30,000 people now, over 30,000 actually.
So they have that list. So we were able to give them the list. So that has every phone number, every demographic, everybody. We've worked with all those 30,000 people. So they randomly sampled, had focus groups and then asked them questions and then marked all that to find out how's the impact. So between the surveys, the focus groups and the key informant interviews, they produced a report which we could share with anybody listening.
[01:00:45] Speaker B: That's awesome. I'm just glad you're doing that because so many missions, visionaries don't. Oh yeah, they, they presume because we know the word works.
[01:00:51] Speaker C: Oh yeah.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: But, but to go back and defend it for fundraising purposes is really important.
[01:00:55] Speaker A: And it's like 70 to 80% effectiveness.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: Which is, that's awesome.
[01:00:58] Speaker A: It's all glory to God. And so we, one of the things we had, we were supposed to be doing, which was due just last week, is the government has now asked us to do a policy brief because they have such a big promise, domestic abuse, that they've actually asked us, can you do a policy brief that we can read a parliament of how Healthy Families foundation can be integrated into the national strategy of fighting. So because we have the evidence that backs it up, it can be presented at parliament because there's hard testimonies, focus groups, key informant interviews, references. We get references everywhere we go. So we have references from everyone, like the teachers, the schools, you know, like the clinics, the vice president, the ministers, pastors. So it's, everything's documented.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: How can we pray for you guys moving, moving forward?
I know you've got some medical issues with your son that you're, you're trying to address now, but what else is going on?
[01:01:48] Speaker C: I mean, I think just for our family, I mean, we have a daughter who's in college.
[01:01:54] Speaker C: And just who just.
[01:01:56] Speaker A: Had a car accident.
[01:01:56] Speaker B: How old are your kids, by the way?
[01:01:58] Speaker C: 18.
[01:02:01] Speaker C: Anna Catherine is 18. She's in college.
Then Caleb is 16 and then Abby girl is 13.
So those are the ages. So just for family. And like Ashley said, the oldest just had a car accident a week and a half ago. And so we're looking for a car.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: For her.
[01:02:19] Speaker C: And also just for her because we are. No, yeah, yeah. We thank God that she's safe. We live in Africa. She's here just, you know, that God continues to provide for her. And I mean, of course she's also American because her mom is American. So this is her second home or first home. I don't know. I mean, she grew up in Africa.
[01:02:37] Speaker A: So yeah, I think the restoration center as well. Like if anybody wants to partner with an organization that's trying to just teach people the gospel and have a center to do that, that they may even be able to come to visit, we would love for those funds to come. Because one of the things you mentioned in working hard, when you're like self funded missionaries, not only are we doing the ministry, but we're constantly having to work to raise the funds. And so I think that's one of the things that. And it sounds like it's not just to make money, it's so that we can just focus on doing the ministry.
[01:03:04] Speaker B: It's reality.
[01:03:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: And the crazy thing about it is sometimes the great missionaries are not always great fundraisers.
And the ones that are really great fundraisers may not be doing the best work.
That's always been a dichotomy that I've wrestled with.
[01:03:25] Speaker A: It is very hard because in order for us to get funny, we either have to make pitches or write proposals. And we're like, we're good at like, sometimes they'll say, well, you, they're too long or, you know, you need to make it shorter. We're like, we can lead you to Christ because we can tell the stories. We can tell you about Christ. We can tell you how Christ has transformed our life. But now you want me to put that in a one page brief of like, it does become hard. So I mean, one of the prayers maybe is somebody in the States that can come alongside of us and maybe just help us with writing and presenting and sharing the work, because that becomes our. We're fully in Botswana, so we have to raise funds in a place that we were with like a month, a year. And so we don't know new people. And like, this was a great opportunity to get here. And we grew up in the Southern Baptist circles. So like a lot of Southern Baptists don't support independent missionaries.
And so now that because they Give.
[01:04:10] Speaker C: To the cooperative program.
[01:04:13] Speaker A: And so we don't. It's like you need to meet another person who can tell you about another. So can invite you to another church to invite you to, to kind of spread the, the word of who we even are. Because. So that's another thing is maybe just prayers that tell somebody about us.
[01:04:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I think prayer is also just for more connections with pastors in Botswana because like we said, that's where the sustainability of this ministry is. It's not. Yes. Like we said earlier, you know, they don't see us as competition, but sometimes it takes a long time for some to actually get to their realization that, oh no, we're not. Like if we're there for 18 days in their community. You know, some churches, you know, waste so much time just thinking, ah, but these guys, we're not really sure about what they're doing. And then 10, 12 days into it now, we're only left with about a week to help them. And that's when they realize, oh, we can partner with these guys. So I just, just favor that. God completely removes all obstacles when we get into communities for them.
[01:05:12] Speaker A: And, and also just let people know that. We have Healthy Families Foundation, Facebook and YouTube. I think we're on TikTok, but I don't. We have a social media guy that handles that and then we have a website, the HealthyFamilies.net.
so if people are interested, they can give on the website. They can follow us on Facebook and YouTube. We have a social media guy that takes a lot of our sermons and preaching and makes it into like one or two minute little videos. He puts. So if you wanted to hear a little bit more about what we do, you can kind of go to those social media places and watch some of that just to follow.
So you see what it is we're trying to do, and ultimately we're trying to lead people to Christ. We're just using the entry point of something that they need help with.
[01:05:50] Speaker B: We've seen here our congregation, the minority of our congregation grew up in a Baptist context.
The people that we've led to Christ.
I met a lady and we always ask, you know, what brought you to our church? What are we doing that's working that got you to come visit?
And she said, oh, my atheist friend invited me.
I'm like, really? Tell me about this. And she said, yeah, I've got a friend who's an atheist, an unbeliever. But they, they learned so much about these other principles for their family that they wanted to, they're evangelizing for you.
So the way we look at it is if. If that's how you come to Christ, if you learn the financial principles, the family principles, and you can trust him with this because it works, then you can trust him with the big thing, your heart.
[01:06:39] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:06:39] Speaker A: You know, and it's interesting that you said that because, like, when we teach this, you know, I said we had 543 that we taught every morning and just in the last one. So that's why I have that number. People say, well, do you vet them? Do you make sure they're Christians? We're like, no. Because ultimately, whoever's the sponsor prints like 5,000 copies. Everybody has their own copy. And the gospel is embedded in every different page. So if we're teaching you to go teach others, we have so many people that are out there, you know, and the Bible says that you should do, and they're teaching to teach others, and then somewhere during the period they become a Christian. But they didn't start off that way. Like, we're not. We are looking for people who are willing to share the message. And then we trust that the. The Gospel is living and active and it'll transform you as you teach it and see it working.
[01:07:22] Speaker B: Amen. Well, let me say thank you guys for joining us today. I hope that, you know, the people watching learn more, go deeper, and come alongside you and support what you're doing. And maybe there may be somebody watching who could write a check to make that dream of the retreat center come come true and let your faith become sight as it has so many times. So thank you guys for joining us.
[01:07:44] Speaker C: Thanks for having us.
