From Rejection Letters to Changing Lives: Teaching Children God’s Truth

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Join Dr. Zach, Terry and an amazing group of your fellow believers on a once in a lifetime journey to the holy land on the 2026 Israel tour. The pages of God's word will come alive as you walk where Jesus walked and study the history of the land of promise. For more information, visit zacterry.com. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think instilling the love of reading is very important, right? [00:00:36] Speaker C: Which was the first book? [00:00:38] Speaker A: The first book was the Baby Garden. And the Baby Garden talks about to like kids that are expecting a sibling, where the babies come from based on Jeremiah 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And I wrote that in 1994, sent it snail mail to all the publishers and got 75 rejection letters back, which is very common. Yes. Oh, very common. And back then we didn't have computers. So you would mail them, snail mail. You would print out your manuscript and mail them. And then that got tabled because baby number two came and I was using that to explain to my oldest where babies come from. And in 2018, what I like to say about God too is he doesn't leave you when he gives you an idea and a message. That took 26 years to finally get published. And it just never left me. It was my mama, who's now 92, who would say, are you going to try to get that book published again? Because when I got all the rejection letters and I had baby number two, life got busy. Everything went put on hold. So that was the first book. [00:01:39] Speaker C: Hey, guys, my name is Zach and I'm your host here on Code Red. Today. I've invited one of my friends to join me on this episode. Kelsey Lowther is going to be our co host today. She is a Christian mother. And that's appropriate today because we are interviewing the author of a children's book, Jennifer Bozma. She has three tremendous books for young kids to help them understand God better. And if you know parents of young children, maybe you have grandchildren yourself, then you'll want to dive into this episode. Welcome to Code Red. Okay, well, this is a new, a new thing for us on Code Red. I've got a new new co host who's joining us, Kelsey Lowther. Welcome to the Code Red studio. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [00:02:36] Speaker C: And we have a guest today, Jennifer Bozma, who's a children's book author. So Jennifer, also welcome to the studio. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. [00:02:45] Speaker C: It is for us as well. And it's we're having to figure out this new arrangement because I'M normally sitting there. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:52] Speaker C: And. And there's this very comfortable distance here between people. And now I've got, like, two beautiful ladies on either side that I'm trying to communicate with and. And at the same time lead this conversation. [00:03:06] Speaker A: I love it. [00:03:07] Speaker C: And so what we did today, Jennifer being a author of children's books, and my children are now adults. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:03:17] Speaker C: And so I'm not far behind you in that progress, but at the same time, we don't have grandchildren yet. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Oh, so fun. What they say is true about that. It's really pretty awesome. Oh, yeah. [00:03:29] Speaker C: And so we were thinking it might be nice to bring someone in who's got children that are in the age range where your. Your ministry lies and what you're writing to. And so, Kelsey, welcome. Thank you for joining us today. And. And we're just gonna jump in and. And kind of tackle the way I normally would. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:50] Speaker C: But you're probably gonna have some ideas that I wouldn't have, so just feel free to jump in anytime. Okay, so just kind of to start us out, tell us a little bit about your background and how long have you wanted to write a children's book? [00:04:02] Speaker A: Oh, what a great question. I have been with kids. I was a teacher for 23 years in public school. Had so much fun with that. I was a teacher that would sing Happy Birthday on the table. Like standing up on a table and it's your birthday, we'd sing Happy Birthday. [00:04:14] Speaker C: What grades did you take? [00:04:15] Speaker A: It was pretty much I taught all of them except kindergarten, but pretty much third and fourth was my wheelhouse because the subject matter is so fun. And so that's kind of where I was with teaching. But where I started wanting to write was reading Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing. Doesn't everyone read Judy Blum Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing when you were a kid. Boys are much more Hardy Boys in that day. [00:04:39] Speaker C: Choose your own adventure back in the day. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So that was a book that really made me start to love to write. And after that, and I was not a big reader growing up. You know, I always. I was number four in my family and I was always kind of like, I was a little struggling reader, had a speech impediment. But the cool part was is when I read that book that just did something. And I remember writing my own 18 page on notebook paper, Patty the Pain to go with Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing. And I found it. It was really cool when you like, I'm not a saver, but I did save that. [00:05:13] Speaker C: That's awesome. [00:05:14] Speaker A: And that's where it kind of started. So when I was teaching, I was the big writing teacher. Would have the kids love, like, teaching them how to write and using vivid verbs. And the best thing is when you go on a hook hunt, when you're a teacher and you look through all your books, a hook is the first sentence in the book, and the best one is Charlotte's Web, papa, where are you going with that ax? You know, I mean, that gets kids going. So I did a lot of writing workshops with teachers and with other. It was just really fun. So that's where my love for writing started. [00:05:45] Speaker C: I think it was Shelby Foote, which is a totally different genre. He writes Civil War. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Okay. Love that too. [00:05:51] Speaker C: So Shelby Foote said that he discovered when he would read like David Copperfield, he said he related to those books better than he did real life. And I think it gives both children and adults a sense of safety, that they can go into a world that's a fantasy world, but it's something that they can feel at home in maybe more than they do in the real world sometimes. Now, as a mother, Kelsey is reading. Do you. Do you read to your kids? Do you. Is it bedtime stories or kind of. What does it look like? [00:06:25] Speaker B: Every night? Bedtime stories every night. So it's very important that when we pick a book that it has, you know, some truth to it. I mean, sometimes we read all the fairy tales, which are great, but these books, especially having the truth in them, have been wonderful, and the girls just love them. And it's funny. I. I too, was a teacher, third and fourth grade. [00:06:48] Speaker A: My favorite best. [00:06:49] Speaker B: And. [00:06:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:50] Speaker B: So I think just instilling the love of reading is very important. [00:06:55] Speaker C: Right. Which was. Which was the first book? [00:06:58] Speaker A: The first book was the Baby Garden. And the Baby Garden talks about to, like kids that are expecting a sibling. Where the babies come from. Based on Jeremiah 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And I wrote that in 1994, sent it snail mail to all the. All the publishers and got 75 rejection. [00:07:17] Speaker C: Letters back, which is very common. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, very common. And back then, we didn't have computers. So you would mail them. Snail mail. You would, you know, print out your manuscript and mail them. And then that got table. Because baby number two came, and I was using that to explain to my oldest where babies come from. And in 2018, that, you know, what I like to say about God, too, is he doesn't leave you when he gives you an idea and a message that took 26 years to finally get published and it just never left me. It was my mama, who's now 92, who had say, are you going to try to get that book published again? Because when I got all the rejection letters and I had baby number two, life got busy. Everything went put on hold. So that was the first book and. [00:07:57] Speaker C: Then how was it? I'm familiar with the rejection letters as well. And for authors, you know, your work, it's like a child and it's a part of you. And for people to look at it and say, yeah, I can't work with that. How, how did you process that emotionally at the time? [00:08:17] Speaker A: You do have to develop thick skin. And the comments I got back were very complimentary, like, oh, great book, can't use it now. I'm like, okay, because you got the letters. [00:08:25] Speaker C: That's true. You learn over time, it's better that they just rip the band aid off and shoot straight with you. Right. I saw it when back in the music industry, it would, you would write these songs. I was, that began as a songwriter and so I would write these songs and I would pitch it to a publishing house or whatever and they would hear like maybe 10 seconds of it and go, oh yeah, cool hook. Can't use it next song constantly. It just rips your heart out. You know, you're like, man, it's three minutes. Can you give me three minutes? [00:08:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:55] Speaker B: No, I think of is Michael Jordan. [00:08:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Really didn't make his high school basketball team. [00:09:01] Speaker C: Right. And, and speaking of athletes, that's kind of your background as well. [00:09:05] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:09:06] Speaker C: So you come from the basketball world and your platform has a lot to do with exercise and kind of how to keep that going as a young mom. So. But yeah, I mean, we've, we've been there in sports, we've been there in arts. When you began to pitch the idea, you, you came back to it. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:27] Speaker C: And had the industry changed when you came back the second time? [00:09:29] Speaker A: You know, it hadn't. I mean, maybe it did, but it was when I was. When you talked about when you show your work. So the, the, the biggest, scariest part is showing your work to your family. Like my husband had seen it, but it was 2018, all my kids were sitting around. It was 4th of July, a big table. My son in law was there. You know, it's a new son in law. [00:09:48] Speaker B: They're all grown. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, they're all grown now. And I sat. I'm like, you know, I really feel like I need to try to get this published again. With the baby garden. And I put it on the table and they're all like reading the, you know, the. The piece of notebook paper. It wasn't even on a computer. And they're. And I'm watching them. I'm watching each of their faces as they're like, reading it. And it's. You're so vulnerable. Then, you know, you're like, here's my stuff. Just like your song writing. And then like, mom, this is really good. You should try again. And in one week, it got picked up by Ambassador International. And. And then in. In 2018, all the. The partial birth abortion stuff came out in New York. Like, and. And I'm like, wow. For such a time as this, God brought this book on, you know, just to share with. With moms and dads that even know if they don't have a plan, you know, God has a plan, you know, and so that's how that book. And then now that book is in 300 pregnancy centers across the country for that mama who's sitting there, you know, with next to her on the table for reading material. Maybe they'll decide that they may not have a plan, but God does. That's awesome. That's kind of a cool. That's where the baby garden came from. And that's why I'm kind of starting that ministry with that with women. And I'm a volunteer at a pregnancy center. So that's how that started. But then the segue to the other two just really opened up, you know, and God's so good how he does that. [00:11:11] Speaker C: Before you get to the other two, tell me a little bit about graphics and art, because that's a big part of children's books. [00:11:19] Speaker A: So. Yes. [00:11:20] Speaker C: How did you find your artist? How did you choose which designs? That's something I know nothing about. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Right. Well, great question. The first book, now that is a different. Winda is from Indonesia. And I didn't know because you're drawing Jesus in this book. And it's really hard. You can't, you know, see the face of God and live right. So when she was drawing, she. My publisher then got her. She's from Indonesia, actually. I found out that she is Muslim and we became friends and I shared with her the gospel and she's drawing Jesus and she does a great job of drawing Jesus in that book. And so it was a great little witnessing time that she and I had. [00:11:58] Speaker C: I bet. [00:11:58] Speaker A: And that was great. And. But she is. Only when she's my first illustrator. But my second and third book, I was able to long story how it all worked, which I won't share now, but I was able to find Beth Snyder, and she is from Kansas, and she is local, and she is incredible because I really. The way she had some time, we wanted to do some animals with the baby garden. I mean, with. I know the plans. And she just. I mean, she has a muted rainbow through the whole thing. She's a major Christian. And what I loved about her illustrations for book two and three was because she tied in Scripture into her illustrations, you know, and like, even with the book three with the doves with God is three in one. She was able to. Because Jesus was at creation, and she's able to draw the three with the three doves in there. So she was able to add in with her illustrations. And I love that muted rainbow on every single page. [00:13:01] Speaker C: The main reason that I wrote Parenting in a Culture War is simply because that the world that I grew up in has changed. It's radically different than what we were equipped to talk about and to answer as young people back in the 80s and the 90s. Today, we're faced with things like the LGBTQ movement, the pride movement that's seeking to take over our communities and even our churches. And when our young people go into the world, whether it's through public school or college, whatever it may be, if we don't give them answers and a worldview to interpret things around them, they're going to be easy pickings for the enemy. Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful design. And it. It seems like when you're partnered with an artist that way they kind of choose you as well as you choosing them, because it's a lot to do there. We were in the same book, same boat, with a non Christian designer in our Luke. Commentary was just a great designer, and he would do what I needed him to do, but it was kind of like he knew nothing about the industry. And we were having to say, okay, this is what a John Piper book looks like. This is what, you know, different. You know, we're showing him the spectrum, and he really did a great job, but it was an unbeliever, and it was an opportunity to witness to him through it, you know, so once you have the finished product, everything's been approved. Are you kind of hands off at that point? Does the publisher carry it or what? How does it get into the hands of these pregnancy centers and the bookstores? [00:14:49] Speaker A: Well, that's pretty much the publisher. They have the rights to choose the illustrator. Okay. So they found Winda, which is in book One, the baby garden. They found her, they paid her, they did all that. When book two came around, I knew I wanted a little bit different. It was funny because Winda had everyone in her illustrations and she's not from here, had red hair. A lot of people had red hair. And then, you know, so she missed some of the things and it was funny. I used like fluffy pillows of white to describe heaven. She had literal pillows on the ground. And I'm like, okay, you know. So we did have some language challenges. But the, but the illustrator, I mean the publisher will pick the illustrator. In my case, some people who self publish do the whole thing and present it like that. But my publisher picked the illustrator. But the second book, I kind of presented this illustrator as an option and I was able to kind of supplement the illustrator a little bit more because the publishers just like to pay a certain amount and they like to. Now publishers like to go off seas a little bit more unless you're really big. But with the book two and book three, I knew the importance of the illustrations. I knew I wanted a Christian to really add to, to the text and it was worth any extra cost that would come as me on the author to get her versus what a publishing house could do. [00:16:11] Speaker C: That's so true. [00:16:11] Speaker A: So they, they kind of run with it. Unless you self publish and then you do it all. But for the marketing and all of that, even if you're traditionally published, a hybrid published or self published, you still have to do your same marketing and you still have to do all that. They just don't do it because they're not going to the big shows anymore. With costs and stuff, everything's more virtual. So you have to help and be a, be a conduit to market your book as well. [00:16:37] Speaker C: I want you to unpack a little bit about that marketing aspect and traveling and I know like you're, you're, you're reading for our kids at our church. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Because that brings in the teaching and. [00:16:47] Speaker C: It'S like, yes, but I'm curious as far as like a mother using this as a tool. What, what does it look like? How do your different age kids interpret? Do they read along? Do they read it to the others? What is it like? [00:17:03] Speaker B: Oh, it's so funny because we have three to eight so you know, the three year old's just up and down, up and down. Her basic is just to sit still and you know, listen. But the eight year old is really when the questions start to come and it just opens this whole discussion about God and I just I love that through a story they have these inquiring minds. [00:17:28] Speaker C: I remember those days with, with Carly. We would sit on the. We had a two person swing on the back porch and we would tell stories and she would just ask the most profound questions out of the blue. And some things I was not prepared for. [00:17:42] Speaker B: Something's right. You have to sit there and think. That's such a great question. I've never thought about that before. [00:17:47] Speaker C: Right. Especially with things like the Trinity trying to explain the unexplainable. Someone said if you, if you, if you reject the Trinity, you lose your soul. If you try to understand it or explain it, you lose your mind. There's a lot of truth to that. But, but we, that's part of, you know, it's the glory of God to conceal a matter. It's the glory of kings to search it out. And thinking through those things is part of where discipleship happens. And so it's fascinating to me to see how it, how it fleshes out in different homes and different family units. And so with, with your kids as you're explaining it, and you've got the baby that's bouncing off the walls. I think one of the things that mothers need to hear is that's okay. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Totally okay. You know, because you're still reading, you're putting those words into their hearts. [00:18:38] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:38] Speaker B: And she knows who Jesus is. She'll tell you Jesus. I mean, she, she knows it. And I think that's what's important. As long as you're saying it, they. [00:18:46] Speaker C: Hear it, it gets in their mind. And each generation processes information a little differently. So I can look out at my own 18 year old and I'm preaching a sermon. My son is over on the front row and he's leaning forward, he's taking it all in. I will look at the 18 year old and swear she's not paying attention after church. She remembers it better than I remember it. She processes. She's taking it all in. But the way that she's internalizing it is different. And I think as little kids, there's a lot of that taking place. They're listening to mom and their processing is just not as they may be multitasking as they're doing it. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:33] Speaker B: And that's so funny you say that. I look at my kids as north, south, east and west. I love it. [00:19:38] Speaker A: They're all ours. [00:19:39] Speaker B: And it's like, how are you so different? And the same with teaching, right? [00:19:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:43] Speaker B: So all your students are different too. And that's something about Carly and Cole. It's just the way they process things. But they still get it. It's just in their own kind of way. [00:19:53] Speaker C: Totally. What is dad's role in this? And I know a lot of times it is Mom's doing the bedtime, the discipleship, a lot of times. But how can dads contribute to these kind of conversations? Either one of you? [00:20:10] Speaker B: Well, Brian, he travels a lot for work. So when he is home, it's such a special time. And the girls love when dad reads. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:20:16] Speaker B: And we play like teacher. So he gets into this role of teacher and they're. Oh, they want to ask questions and you know, he kind of plays along in that kind of way. And they really love that. [00:20:26] Speaker C: That's awesome. So have you got feedback from dads on? [00:20:30] Speaker A: I love it when my husband reads. I mean, he, he'll start doing a rap and he'll start. I mean, he'll start singing these songs and like, for the best nest he has a whole jingle for like, you know, I love my house, I love my nest in all the world my nest is best. Yeah. And. And I mean, we all start. Yeah. You know, we all start singing. So sometimes when I'm reading my grandkids books, I go back to, you know what he does. Llama, llama, red pajama. They have a way to do things that's out of the box a little bit more and you just gotta let them go. And the kids are giggling and cracking up and. And that's what the two books. The second. I know the plans and God is three and one. They're in rhyme. [00:21:10] Speaker B: They all rhyme. [00:21:11] Speaker A: So that helps because the kids will chime in and fill it in a blank. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Fill it in. [00:21:15] Speaker A: So making reading fun. And once they start, when you see the book with a really long text, you know, it's always right before they're going to bed. Like you got five minutes. And they pick the long, like the Disney one. That's really, really long text. And you're like, great. You know, read a sentence or two. You don't have to read the whole page. If they're not readers, that's a good mom trick. They do that all the time until they get older. They're like, they've skipped a. You're like, really busted. [00:21:41] Speaker C: I remember early on and I'm. I don't know how young I was. I was probably under four. It had to be under four. It was my great great grandmother. She was 92, I was four. Blanche Coffee was her name. And she had a. She had a basket of Children's books. [00:22:02] Speaker A: I love it. [00:22:03] Speaker C: She was probably the first person I remember reading those books to me. My mom and dad were very busy. They were working hard. Mom was an entrepreneur, started a business. Bring it back some. [00:22:20] Speaker A: Isn't that sweet, though? That's so good. [00:22:23] Speaker C: But she would read those books, and I really don't. I don't remember a lot of other people reading to me early on, but she would read those books to me, and now I'm an author. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Isn't that great? Full circle. [00:22:40] Speaker C: But my grandfather was her grandson. His mother passed away soon after he was born, and so she basically raised my granddad. So how many people even get to know their great great grandmother, you know, but was just an interesting lady. And I remember, like you said, I remember times of it was Bert and Ernie books, and she would read those books to me. And if she skipped apart, I was, wait, pace three, you missed it. I remember doing that as a little kid. And, you know, I think for dads, it's intimidating. It's not like a young man doesn't think if his girlfriend is expecting a young man, that's not in his life plan. And I think especially with these pregnancy centers and when you're trying to reach out to them, if they only knew how much they could come alive by investing in a child, that it's not just the motherly instinct, but there's a fatherly instinct that's there that needs to be kept alive. And. And it will. It brings something out of a man. When a child comes along. I remember with each child distinctly never feeling ready. And, you know, I think that's the thing. [00:24:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:06] Speaker C: It's so frightening because we don't feel like we're mature enough. We don't feel like we've got our act together. It always seemed like our parents had everything, you know? [00:24:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:14] Speaker C: And then when it's us, it's like, oh, my goodness, I'm not ready for this. But with each child, it's like, I found a new gear that. Okay, time to. Time to step it up, you know, and you thank God. Thank God that what our kids bring out of us, you know, back to when you're. When you have the finished product, you've proofed the book is ready to sell, you have to change gears. You're no longer a creator. Now you're an entrepreneur and a salesperson, marketer. How does that work and what does it look like? [00:24:49] Speaker A: You know, that works in a way that you have to be completely not have a fixed mindset. You have to have A growth mindset and you can't be intimidated. And one thing I learned to do was, you know, the whole growing on Instagram. To have that, you have to have a website and you have to be able to bring people in for that. And then just how God pulled on the podcast that I'm doing, that's a great way. And I, you know, I'll put a plug in there, but it's more mentoring women around the world on that podcast. But you really just have to be able. And I love it when God just gives you an idea and you pray about it. Whenever, you know, we get all kinds of ideas as moms and dads and, you know, adults, you just have to stop and just say, is this from you? And is this what you want me to try? And you have to be willing to take that leap of faith and go for it. Because I like to say this, that God is very faithful. Faithful. And he will give you the direction, he will give you the roadmap. But we have to be obedient to kind of do it. And I like the. When I was in Georgia, before I moved to Florida, I was sitting out and seeing big Georgia pines. I mean, they're tall and they were in my backyard and I was watching the squirrel jumping from tree to tree. And it was probably about a six foot chasm that they were, and they were way up there and they would jump over to this tree. And I was sitting there and I'm thinking that is what God has for us. Because when we're up on the top of the tree and we, he has a plan, we want to need to jump for it. We can't jump. And then in the middle think, oh, am I doing the right thing? Because if you do that, like the squirrel is going to crash on the ground. You got to be committed like that squirrel and just go to that next tree. And then he will either confirm, you know, he'll confirm or deny, as long as you're obedient to what he gives. So I think with marketing a book, you really just have to think out of the box. You got to like, just pray about it and you got to be willing to be kind. Your mind has to be open to trying new things and not being well. I don't do that and I don't do a website and I don't know social media. You have to be open to what he has for you. [00:26:42] Speaker C: Did you have any, any experienced authors to, to kind of disciple you in that or to come alongside you at all? [00:26:50] Speaker A: Not really. I Had to. [00:26:51] Speaker C: So you really had to be bold. [00:26:52] Speaker A: You do, you do. You have to be bold. And the first book was 26 years in the making, and I just knew that God did not leave it, you know, and when he brought it back out, and then with the book number, people are like, how do you get your ideas? When book number two, I know the plans came out, I was sitting with my little grandbaby. Mom was unpacking the hospital bag first grandbaby. It is really special. As we talked about, I'm holding her. And as a teacher, as you know, Kelsey, you read every day. There's never a day. On six months, on day three, I'm gonna start reading. No, you read immediately, even when they're sleeping, because you're doing that word and you're doing the speech and they're learning in their brains. But I was sitting there holding her. I'm like, okay, it's my moment. I'm having a moment. I need to read her a book. I'm not going to read her Hop on Pop or Goodnight Moon. I'm looking through, like, trying to find a book. And then I did find a kid's Bible, which I just started reading to her, and she's sleeping in my arms. But that's when it came to all the scriptures that I had prayed when they were little bitties at their doors at night. And so I started. I'm like, I need to write a book with all the scriptures. I prayed over my own daughters. And that's how I know the plans came to be from that moment, holding, not finding a book for my grandchild. So I like to say it's like, you know, like Jesus calling only for babies. And I hadn't. It's not based on Jesus calling, but that's where it came from that I had to write a book with all those scriptures in because that will imprint the parent's heart and it'll imprint the child's heart. Even when they're infants, they're going to hear the word. [00:28:23] Speaker B: That's right. [00:28:24] Speaker C: You know, I've said this before on other programs, but, you know, if you ask the average Christian who was the best preacher in the New Testament other than Jesus, they're probably going to say Paul. We've got more from Paul than anybody else. But a good argument could be made that Apollos was a better communicator because Corinth was divided over, you know, well, Paul's great, but I really like Apollos, but he wrote nothing down. So we. If he wrote anything, it might have been Hebrews, but. But we don't know. So the idea is it doesn't matter how much you've learned if you don't write it down somewhere, even if it's not a published book, because everybody's not going to get published and everybody's not going to have a great artist beside them. But just for your own kids sake, it's good to write these things down and remember and have something that's going to live past you. [00:29:17] Speaker A: So good, so true. [00:29:18] Speaker C: When you were, when you were dreaming about writing, who were your heroes that you looked at and said, if everything goes well, perhaps it will be like her or him or. Who did you look at as examples? [00:29:32] Speaker A: Probably Judy Bloom. Yes, I loved all her books growing up just because it was relatable. [00:29:39] Speaker C: Are you tired of the watered down takes on what's happening in our world? I'm Pastor Zach Terry and I believe that Christians should not be the last ones to know what's really going on. That's why I started writing on Substack. Think of it like sitting down for coffee each week, except we're talking worldview theology and the behind the scenes moments that I can't always share from the pulpit or the podcast. It's direct, it's biblical, and it's uncensored. If you want to be equipped, not just entertained subscribers, subscribe today zacterry.substack.com let's build a tribe of truth tellers in a confused culture. [00:30:20] Speaker A: You know the text. I really wasn't into science fiction. I also loved the Little House of Prairie books. You know, it was just basic life. And when I read them older as an adult, I was kind of like, wow, how did I get so into this as a child? But I think when you're a child, you have that simple life and you're, you know, going to cross the meadow in the snow to go get your water for the river. You know, it was just like, it was a new world for me. So I really, I really liked those authors. Yeah, so those are the ones that really kind of made imprint. And I don't know about y', all, but I love going to the Scholastic Book Fairs. So fun. [00:30:58] Speaker C: I remember. Do you remember the. When you could get free pizza if you read so many tickets? [00:31:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Book it. [00:31:04] Speaker A: Book it. [00:31:04] Speaker C: That's right. Yes. Totally remember that you read like five books, you get a personal pan pizza. Yes, I love that. And the book fairs were awesome. [00:31:12] Speaker A: And that I would go on book fairs and I'd be like, I need to have a Book here. I mean, it was just like this calling on my life and. And being a teacher and going and go and as. Okay. When you're a young mom or dad, going to the library is the best thing because you can check out like 20 books and they're free. You know, you can just go. And you just have to return them at the right time. But it's such a great option. So the world of text is just so beautiful and. And it does take the kids away to a new land. And that's why it was funny with Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing. They lived in an apartment in New York City. I had never even been to New York City, you know, and in the apartment, nonetheless, I had. We lived in a house in Florida, you know, so it just takes you away. I'm. [00:31:56] Speaker C: I remember going to the book fairs and the way the books smell. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:01] Speaker C: I felt more intelligent. Yeah, I felt more intelligent. Just the aroma of the book, but yeah. And then there's something almost sacred about a library experience. And I think at one time in our culture that was. They honored. They knew that. They knew that what we were creating is not just a storehouse of books, but it's a sacred environment that a person could expand their mind and become a better human being by going in. And I think, you know, that's one of the. One of the reasons right now it's such a dangerous thing to allow materials that can devastate, you know, here in our own area. I think that's something that the left understands perhaps better than the right does, is that if they can control the books and if they can get the right, you know, pornographic material into the library, they can do a great deal of damage. Oh, yes, but it seems like, I mean, Kelsey, like right now are. Do young mothers go to the library? [00:33:11] Speaker B: You know, I was thinking about that. I. Probably not as much as they did back. You know, even, like when our kids. [00:33:20] Speaker C: Were small, we would take. Julie would go up there, they would have a reading hour. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:24] Speaker B: And they still have that here. I think for young moms, especially, sometimes it's hard, especially when you're starting out at the library. I. I think back in. When the kids were little, it's like the little tantrums or they wanted to pull all the books off the shelf and you're like, oh, my gosh, you can't do that. [00:33:39] Speaker A: You're at the library, you have to be quiet, like. [00:33:42] Speaker B: But the more you go, the more they understand how to act at the library. So it can be difficult at first. Because you're like, oh, everybody's watching me. My kids taking books off the shelves. [00:33:55] Speaker C: You know, is it still a rite of passage of like when they're old enough to get a card? Because that was the first thing I remember. A government issued card that I received was my library card. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:34:06] Speaker C: And feeling like, okay, now I'm a real man. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I've got a lot of library card, you know. [00:34:12] Speaker C: Is that still a thing? [00:34:13] Speaker B: I, you know, I'm not even sure. I think, I think it still is here downtown. [00:34:18] Speaker C: That was just such a big like okay, maybe third grade and okay, now you can get a. It was almost like a driver's license. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker C: And I get the library card. The first thing that I go to, I'm going to. I want to go. There's books on werewolves and I could learn everything I could. [00:34:35] Speaker A: All the seasons were out too. Like if it's right now there's Christmas books out there and they would have the Halloween books with the werewolves and. And they would have all the Thanksgiving books. And you just felt like you're going like seasonal like Easter and spring and you want more Jesus books, you know. Of course. But I think in two, if a mom is scared about going to the library, you just gotta go. [00:34:55] Speaker B: You just gotta. [00:34:56] Speaker A: You know what? And if there's gonna be judgers out there, then they have not had their own set of kids. [00:35:00] Speaker B: That's right. [00:35:00] Speaker A: You know, and you just go in, especially with the story time because they're the librarians are there know that kids are gonna be like squirmy and. And that's okay. Just get them out there. And I would let them pick their books and put them in the bag and it's just that little sense of. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Independence that they can their book and they picked it. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:20] Speaker C: I think that's one thing about just citizenship that was special to me as a child is I felt like that was my library as much as was anybody else's. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:28] Speaker C: You know, so I felt like I belonged. That it belonged to me in a unique way. I never felt out of place there. [00:35:35] Speaker A: And it's free. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:35:37] Speaker C: Everybody can afford that. [00:35:38] Speaker A: It is free. And there's no cost. Just got to get your books back. But. And that teaches your kids responsibility that, you know, you can keep your library books in a stack that's not in your big toy box, you know, so we don't have to dig them all out. [00:35:50] Speaker C: Is the, is the market changing nowadays versus back when we were kids? I'm thinking like just with Digital is. Are there digital versions of your books? Is that something that children's books do as much? [00:36:05] Speaker A: There are Kindles. I, you know, I don't really keep track of the Kindle sales. I know that they are because I have no way of knowing the publisher would know that. But there's just something about paper in their hands and turning the pages. And I know the plans is coming out in a board book, which is really kind of fun. So take it with you. Yes. And then it won't take it in the car and the pages rip, and so that's really good. But there's just something about turning that page. And for kids, you know, the digital. I'm not a fan of that because there's too many stimulations in their brain, and that's a whole other topic for a different podcast. But, you know. Yeah, yes, definitely. [00:36:44] Speaker C: When you're. When you're going into the marketing phase, do you have to go to. Do you do, like, readings or what? Unpack that. [00:36:52] Speaker A: For me, you know, doing author visits is really fun. [00:36:55] Speaker C: And what exactly is that? [00:36:57] Speaker A: Well, I go into. I feel like I'm in the classroom again because, I mean, I used to love being in theater, too. So I view a classroom or an author visit as my stage. And we'll go and we'll sing the Continent song for. I know the plans because you go all around the Continent countenance for that and you just. I just. Just love to promote it and to share it and to read it to kids. In the very beginning, I was sending a lot of books away for free. And our accountants, like, you know, you've been selling a lot of books and. But my husband's like, well, we give a lot away for free. Because someone told me once, do y' all know the. The mom who wrote. Oh, she's a huge. For new. New babies. You know, the new baby books that they. [00:37:38] Speaker C: Not what to expect. [00:37:40] Speaker A: No, not what to expect when you're expecting, but it'll come to me right now. But she is. Her name's Laura Hunter. Moms on Call. Moms on Call is a great book for moms. But she said, you know, when I met her, when I know the plans first came out and we had lunch together, and she said, you know, your first year, get it out there. You know, give it to everyone, because it doesn't do you any good. Because I had to buy some books from my publisher. Sitting in your dining room table, you know, get them out there, share the books, share them out. And so that's my biggest Thing and. But now I'm going to have to. It's been out for a while. I got to start like, okay, I'll see people on the beach. I'm like, yeah, would you like to, you know, bond on the beach? And they have little ones. I'm like, you need. I know the plans. And they have no. I'm like, I live right here. Hang on. You know, my husband's like, you gotta like, stop doing that. But it's just getting it out there and sharing it and doing the author vision. So I'm so thankful I get to go to your school here and share with the kids and just do the songs and just get them to love scripture. And I can't wait. It's going to be really fun. [00:38:37] Speaker C: There's part of the market of an author that people don't understand. And it's that, well, you take like a David Jeremiah, you know, I'm writing in that genre, that market. But Jeremiah will buy maybe, you know, 50,000 copies because a couple of things. One, it puts you instantly on a best sellers list. [00:39:02] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:03] Speaker C: You've already sold that many copies to yourself. To yourself. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that's okay. [00:39:06] Speaker C: And then he can, he can turn around and the profits margin is going to be a little higher. He sells them through his radio program or whatever it might be. But there is, it seems like magic if somebody suddenly, wow, they've got the touch of God, they're a bestseller. It's like now they've got a really. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Good marketing plan, right? [00:39:26] Speaker C: And that's a lot of it. [00:39:27] Speaker A: And my trick is to, to have it in different. Like we have a couple sellers in Texas, like actually boutiques that are great places. And I ship them the books, you know, they don't, they don't get it through my publisher. I just kind of work with them directly. They can. And then I have some places in Oregon, I have places in Georgia, so I have select little stores. And sometimes when I go to visit a new place, I'll pop in a boutique and say, hey, I always kind of have some extra books in tow. And I'm like, hey, would you be interested in selling this? And I can work with you. And. And I sell it to them. So. [00:39:59] Speaker B: So you go into those stores to promote the books. [00:40:02] Speaker A: And I don't know. My third book, Goddess 3 in 1 is through Endgame Press. That is a Christian author as well. [00:40:08] Speaker C: That's beautiful. [00:40:09] Speaker A: That one does really. She does a lot with it. She does a little bit more marketing because all publishers will do a different way. They have different resources. Like God is three and one just won third place, which I'm like, woohoo on the Writers Christian Writers Association. So it's nonfiction book of the year that I mean, and. But she is one. She's like members of the trade, so she's allowed to submit it for that. Whereas Ambassador International isn't like a member of that trade, so they couldn't submit. And it's only authors that, I mean, it's only publishers that submit the book. So sometimes different publishers will do different things. So Endgame Press, that is, who did Goddess 3 in 1 is a lot more. They do a lot more promotion and so. But that one is through Fusion, which was hybrid and a hybrid. A lot of people don't get that, but a hybrid is. I had a say in the Illustrator. [00:41:02] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:41:03] Speaker A: Because when you're drawing like the Trinity and the back of God and. And the pictures that she drew in there were so intense that to me it helped to. To have a say. So in order to have a say in Goddess three and one and the illustrations I was able to. I chimed in a little bit more and they let me do that with Fusion because the illustrations are pretty incredible. [00:41:28] Speaker C: So when you're, when you're going into something like the Trinity and you're in your. Before you're translated, because a lot of it, you're taking, you're taking concepts that are very grown up concepts, you know the most grown up concepts, and you're communicating it in a way that's biblical and effective for little kids. How much did you do in your own study and who did you lean upon to say, okay, who has done a good job at explaining it to me? Because it's. Go ahead and grab that. If you just pop it off, it's okay. There are things you'll do like heresies, you can slide into a heresy very quickly when you're talking about these things. What did you lean on? I'm just curious. [00:42:26] Speaker A: Fantastic question. Well, I went to some trusted pastors. I had about, probably about six different pastors that I had read this because it is very scary. And I like to say no author ever sets out. I'm gonna write a book on the Trinity for children in rhyme. I mean, that's just not where you go. It was funny though, because I've always loved the Book of Acts. A lot of people say, what's your favorite book in the Bible? Well, there's many. But I always like lean into Acts because it's kind of like Jesus marching orders for us. As believers, you know, before he ascended and gave us the Holy Spirit. So I love the book of Acts. And I always kind of thought, I think I'll write, you know, maybe God has me. Not me. Maybe God has me writing a book on Acts. So when my. The story on how this all came up is pretty funny. I don't know. Okay, we're in Texas. You know, picture it. We're on a dusty road in Texas. My. I used to live four doors down from our granddad kids until they moved to southern Oregon. So we're walking and my four year old granddaughter who I wrote I Know the Plans. She was the same inspiration behind I Know the Plans when she was that infant. So we're walking, Grandma, grandchild, she's four. We're walking. And I said, and they're a Christian family. And I said something about, oh, the Holy Spirit. I don't know what I said, but I said something about the Holy Spirit. And she said, grandma, who is the Holy Spirit? And I said, oh, let's. I'm like, let's go there. I'm like, here we go. Like a big theological question. And so we were walking. I'm like, you know that chicken coop in your backyard? You know when you go with the eggs and you get the egg out and you have that, you know, you have an egg and you have an eggshell and you have an egg white and you have an egg yolk? I'm like, you know how it's all three parts of the egg, but they're different? She goes, yeah. I said, that's like the Holy Spirit. She goes, the Holy Spirit's a chicken egg. I'm like, no, no, no, no. And then I'm like, and then I'm trying to know. We've got God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. God is three in one. And then I was singing the Donut man song. Do you remember Rob Evans, the Donut Man? [00:44:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:44:21] Speaker A: God is 3 and 1, 3 and 1, 3 and 1. And I don't know the next verse, but I was just started singing God is three in one. And then I'm like, okay, whoa. So when God gets a hold of you like that. I was completely consumed with this book for two solid weeks. I would just sit on my little porch and write and write and write what is out there. Then it came in rhyme. I'm like, I could not leave this book. So my husband walks out one morning. It was like I was watching the sunrise. It's like seven in the morning. Like, look What I did. And he's like, rubbing the cobwebs out. I'm like. And my rhyme was very rudimentary. He's like, whoa. You know, like, whoa. Okay, yeah, yeah. I'm like, go for it. And he's like, so he wasn't. I didn't get the. All the. Wow, this is so great, Jen. You know, this is amazing. And he was tired. You know, he was just going to get his coffee. And then I'm like, well, that was discouraging, Lord, because I wanted more of a. Wow, this is great. [00:45:15] Speaker C: We always do. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. We want the whole, like, you know, everyone. And then I'm like, okay. So then I'm like, well, maybe I need to put it away and not do it. Then my daughter came over. Little girl. My. My granddaughter's mama comes over, and I'm like. And I had worked on it, tweaked it some more. And she looked at it and she's reading it. And of course, you know, you're looking at them like, what do they think? What do they think? They're reading my text. Oh, my goodness. And then she's like, whoa, mom, this is really good. And not only is it going to teach the children, it's going to teach the parents, right? [00:45:47] Speaker C: Oh, that's a good insight. [00:45:48] Speaker A: And I'm like, really? So that's how it came to be. Thank the Lord. [00:45:53] Speaker C: Stumbled into this concept that I'm about to tell you about. We would have new believers who were in their 70s and 80s. Okay. That's just the nature of this community is an interesting community and people who. It's a high cost of living here where you guys live. And so people have worked hard their whole life. They move here. And so for many of them, they're just now able to think about eternal things. So it's not uncommon for someone to come into our church. And you would know the people I'm talking about that I could tell you where they sit at. But they come in and they're just soaking it all in. [00:46:32] Speaker A: But we're. [00:46:33] Speaker C: You know, I've done this 30 years. I've preached for 30 years. So I sometimes forget, oh, there's basic things that I can. Acronyms I can use, and they don't know what I'm talking about. So what we discovered is those can be the best people to work at vacation Bible school because we're going through the ABCs of Christianity and they're learning as they go. And I always feel kind of unprepared for it. But, hey, if you don't know these foundational truths. It's never too late to start. And so many things that we presume, even when we say Trinity, we presume people know what that means. The word's not even in the Scripture. It's a concept that was used to capture truths that are in the Scripture. You read through and you see when obviously, no question about the Father is God throughout the Scriptures. Then here comes Jesus. Thomas bows down and says, my Lord and my God. He uses the same descriptors for Jesus as he did the Father. Then this person of the Holy Spirit, you see him being discussed and he's a distinct person, but he's given the same attributes of eternality and creative power. And you see these ideas that Elohim and in early Genesis, that there's some plurality to God, but it's indisputable. There's only one God, you know. And so the early church had to wrestle with these complex ideas. What do you do with that? There's very clearly one God. We are monotheist as Christians, and there's a plurality of persons somehow. So all throughout Christian history, you see the wrestling with what would be called modalism is that his Father one time, son another time, Spirit another time. And that was labeled heresy because that's not how the Trinity works. He's not manifesting in this form. He is the Father, the Son, the Spirit. I remember as a child, the first encounter I had with it was in a King James only church. KJ I'm hearing, you know, the Holy Ghost is in this room. And I'm eight and I'm like, where is that ghost? [00:49:02] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:49:03] Speaker C: I'm looking and I remember going to bed at night and praying, father, protect me from vampires, monsters and the Holy Ghost. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:49:12] Speaker C: Because I had this idea. I don't know what kind of ghost it is, but I don't want anything to do with a ghost. And I wish that someone had been able to unpack that for me as a child. And aren't you glad that literal? Yeah, our kids are getting. The Holy Spirit is our best friend. Jesus says, it's better that I go into heaven so that the helper will come. [00:49:37] Speaker A: That's how I signed that book. You have a helper with John 14:26. [00:49:42] Speaker C: He's your helper. He's your comforter. He empowers you. You can't come to Christ apart from the Holy Spirit. He's the illuminator of the truth. And to be able to introduce at such an early age, I wonder how Many of these kids become evangelists and go and explain these truths to their friends because they chatter boxes. They ask to do it. You know, as you, as you. What came first, podcast or writing? [00:50:11] Speaker A: Writing what? [00:50:12] Speaker C: What led you into the podcast world? [00:50:14] Speaker A: That's a fun question. Because when I first wrote the Baby Garden, I had a parent in my classroom and she was the New York Times best selling Paleo mom, Sarah Ballantine. She was huge. And so she was kind of like, oh, she was kind of like my mentor in the industry. And so I would say, sarah, what do I do? And she goes, well, you need to get a website. I'm like, and you need to blog. And I'm like, I don't blog. I just want to write my books and do my teaching. She goes, no, Jennifer, you need to blog. [00:50:44] Speaker C: You can't not do this and put regular content out. It's the way the market works, right? [00:50:48] Speaker A: And she's. I'm like, well, what? She goes, no, you need to blog. I'm like, okay, get a website. So that was my start. So I have all these blogs. I have front parking spot blog, one minute, mama, and then the words for Wednesday. So I had three different sections of my blog that I would write weekly, you know, on it. So I have a whole bunch of content. And so I realized that even though my website was getting hits and you get all, you know, you don't. We look around the geography and people are reading it. But I just felt like people. I know that I wasn't reading blogs as much as I would hope, you know, I can't hope that you read blogs if I'm not reading blogs, you know, I mean, like, blog time was not. It was kind of trending into the podcast world because then you have a platform that people are folding their clothes, they're driving their kids, they're doing all the things and they can listen and work, they can multitask. Because when you're sitting and reading your phone or whatever, A, people think you're being rude because you're reading your phone, or B, you know, you're just, you're. You don't have time to sit and do that. So I started thinking, and it was when I went and got a book and when I was teaching, there was, in the library, back to library, there was a book on how to podcast. So it had. It was a kid's book. And I'm like, of course I read that to my class. I'm like, let's do this and read it to my class. And I'M like, it was planting seeds in myself. So that's how we. I kind of launched into podcasting, and then I found this amazing Christian podcast coach named Stephanie Gass. G A S s. She taught. I did a class. I did a class. But the first part of the class was clarify your calling. And it was just a time I felt like I was going to church with this girl because she just built me up as, like, what is your message? Who is your audience? What do you want to say? And she kind of. And I kind of already knew that, and I had that planted, but she really kind of. The first part of it was really sitting, clarify your calling. What is it? What is God calling you to do? And she was a. She's a major Christian, so it really helped me kind of hone in. And Then the Part 2 podcast Pro University was what microphone to get, you know, what. What plan. Like audacity. Like, I use audacity because she does. I mean, so now I have a little bit of the In. You know, the next steps are, okay, I've done this for two years. I need to kind of refine it. And it's a little bit scary launching into that deep when I don't have her holding my hand saying, now, this is the next one you should do, and this is how you do this, that, and the other, you know, launching in the video, per se. [00:53:17] Speaker C: And consistency is the key in a lot of ways. They say most podcasts, I forget the number, it was hundreds of thousands of podcasts, and most do not make it to the ninth episode. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Really? [00:53:31] Speaker C: They say if you get to nine, you can get to 90. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Wow. Yes. [00:53:34] Speaker C: But that's. That's it. Early on, you're creating this content, and there are not many people going to see it. It's just not right, you know, unless you're pouring marketing money into. Takes a long time to get traction. And we would see bumps to where it was like, okay, 30 people watched okay, for weeks, and then suddenly 150, then one day, a couple thousand. [00:53:59] Speaker A: Wow. [00:54:00] Speaker C: You know, and now it's like 120,000. [00:54:03] Speaker A: That's amazing. [00:54:04] Speaker C: But it seems like the algorithm is just sitting back going, okay, are you going to keep this up? Are we going to send all these people your way? Then you bail on us, you know, and so consistency is so important. And I think for pastors who have people like you in their congregation, like Kelsey in the congregation, we've got to leverage that and coach our people. You know, back in the day, it was evangelism explosion or Whatever to train your people to get the word out. And now I believe every pastor in America should be in this arena. They should be creating content. And if they have people that obviously Kelsey's just been creating content and starting different handles and messaging for a long time. And it's been conservative, it's been aligned with our messaging. But it's about being a mom, you know, how to stay in shape as a mom in parenting and wife insights. And it's like, that's not my message. But we've got to recognize when someone has something to say and come alongside them and help platform those people. And back at one time it might be, well, hey, you know, share with the ladies group on Wednesday night. We still do that, but this is really going to reach more people than that would. So that's part of why we're, you know, bringing people from the church into this environment that God's given us. And we've been able to build it up to, to just be a microphone to the world. [00:55:42] Speaker B: You know, I think especially now I've noticed such a calling with just the way of the world, especially as a young mom, to really speak the truth. And I can feel God leading me to do that, whereas I'm a very conservative, kind of laid back. But I feel like God wants me to use my voice and he has so many things to say through me. And if I can be that light to another mom, then that's what I want to do and I just, I'm here for it. [00:56:14] Speaker C: So a pastor, a pastor that's had a big impact on me. Doug Wilson said that. He said, I write podcasts, the other things for the same reason a dog barks. Just what he does. It's in his nature, you know, and he can't imagine not rolling with those things. But there is a sense in which as a pastor, I believe people need to hear, hey, it's okay if you've got a voice and a message, we need to hear from you, there's things you can say that I can't say or, I don't know, to say it, you know, and invite people into the space. And so our kind of long term goal is you've got Code Red, which is my, my podcast. But to have two or three more with it so that we've got people speaking to different sectors and different audiences. The first podcast. Do you know the story of the first podcast? [00:57:12] Speaker A: No, I don't. [00:57:13] Speaker C: So a guy who was an MTV VJ back in the day. [00:57:17] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:57:18] Speaker C: Remember those? [00:57:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:57:19] Speaker C: So. So he Was he was a vj, super popular. [00:57:23] Speaker A: He. [00:57:24] Speaker C: He and his wife started the first podcast and it was on wine. And it was just a deep dive into all the different types of wine and all these kind of things. Just a, you know, fascinating. I'm sure I haven't heard, but sure, it was a fascinating program. Seven episodes in, they come to Jesus. Like apart from the podcast, they hear the gospel, they believe they're radically saved. And authenticity is a big part of. That's what people like about media in general is when it's not like mainstream. So they were just talking about, well, hey, there's this Merlot. And then by the way, I gave my life to Jesus this week. And so from that point on, every episode was about this journey with Christ, was the first podcast ever started, was witnessing someone's conversion to Jesus. And so from there today he's considered, he's been on like Rogan a couple of times. He's considered the godfather of podcasting. But he's strongly encouraging people, churches, step into this environment and let's watch. You know, we don't know where it's going to go. That's not really the reason we do it. We're not trying to corner the market here. But if we can shine a light on people like yourself and introduce our people to good material, why not? You know, so if our ladies, our families is right here at Christmas, is there still time to get the books before Christmas? [00:59:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. I can leave you a few in your, in your office or at school. Several moms have ordered some from the school. And I was, while you were talking, I was thinking of something too about building up others. And I heard this recently. A rising tide raises all ships. [00:59:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:59:19] Speaker A: And so when you're in the process, what you're doing with your pastoring and working, you know, building up other people that have that voice, it's just that's it's a win, win. [00:59:28] Speaker C: It's not a competition. No. [00:59:30] Speaker A: And if we can just share Jesus, like when we're before, when we pray, before we start, that our words are going to be what someone needs to hear and it's not about us, it's about him. And if this is, this is a great platform that this day and age that we're allowed to do on a podcast and they can be working and hearing us. So yes, it's not too late for my books. You know, jenniferbosma.com is my main website or order through that you can. Or Front Parking spot is my podcast just Front Parking Spot on Instagram. Instagram? Yeah, Front parking spot. But. And they're on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but I. They can't get them signed from there, so. [01:00:08] Speaker C: So you can get a sign? [01:00:09] Speaker A: Yes, if you come. If you come to me, I can sign them and mail them to you. So it's just a little bit. But yeah, so I can leave a couple at your office or your bookstore? If you have a bookstore, I can leave some there, and then, you know, I can ship them, too. [01:00:22] Speaker C: When you. When. When we first connected, I came on your podcast. [01:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah, you did. [01:00:27] Speaker C: And where were you living at the time? [01:00:30] Speaker A: I was living in Neptune Beach. We had just moved there. [01:00:33] Speaker C: Where did you move there from? [01:00:35] Speaker A: From Atlanta. The Atlanta area. Marietta, Georgia. [01:00:37] Speaker C: I think when I looked you up, it was. It was showing you as being up there. [01:00:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:41] Speaker C: And then we were. I think it was on the show or something. It was like, oh, wait, we're literally down the beach from each other. [01:00:48] Speaker A: Yes. We did not realize that because it was so cool. We talked about, like, you guys have been to Beaches, Towne center, and I'm like, this is great. Like, you're local. We connect to meet people. Face to face is so much better. [01:01:00] Speaker C: And then I think it was last Sunday, someone who was a faithful listener to your podcast shows up at our church. So. Talk about a rising tide lifting all ships. You know, I was under the impression that you were probably in a different state, and whoever the audience is that was following your material, I would probably never see him the side of heaven. But you never know, right? You never know. [01:01:26] Speaker A: And she came walking in. She had told me. She goes, I'm going to go there. [01:01:29] Speaker C: Right? [01:01:30] Speaker A: You know, because I had shared something, one of your podcasts and shared our. When our podcast came live, I shared that out, and I'm like, this is local, y'. [01:01:37] Speaker C: All. [01:01:37] Speaker A: This is. [01:01:37] Speaker C: It was so cool. And, you know, today at noon, I'm meeting with another pastor in the area. And it's not just about our church. We're trying to work with other churches and figure out, hey, they've got content that people need to hear. And if. You know, one thing that I'm really excited about, our office is working on right now is an app that's very robust, it's very expensive. We're having to pay a lot of money for it. But it's an app. It will be the Maximum Life plus app that'll be on all the app stores. Have I told you about this yet? [01:02:11] Speaker B: No. [01:02:11] Speaker C: So it's coming out. And so let's just say if. If it works out. So there's the Kelty Lowther show. It's got its own space on the app. So if somebody gets the app, everything that we produce can be in one location. Easy to find. Right now they've got to go for Code Red. They go to YouTube. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:32] Speaker C: They've. They've got a substack blog. You know, there's the radio programs over here. So there's all of this content. Books. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:40] Speaker C: This will bring. If you have the app, you get to read every book. You don't have to. Wonderful. Go to different places for. [01:02:47] Speaker A: Look at you taking that leap of faith. But there you go, you're thinking out of the box and you're really into the ideas and there you go. That's how you do this. [01:02:54] Speaker C: And it's, it's the kind of thing that I, you know, when I get on an airplane. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:59] Speaker C: And there's what, you know, 150 people, whatever it is on an airplane, I want it to be to where like at least 25% of those people are. They have our materials available if they want to make spiritual progress, you know, and well, we've got to figure out a way to make that easy for them, you know. And so as people come along and create content, you know, we're always looking and for people watching, we're always looking for partnerships for that to help just kind of cross pollinate and just, you know, see what happens with the end being one day we're not going to be here anymore. [01:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:36] Speaker C: And maybe something that we've produced will outlive us. [01:03:40] Speaker A: And we're planting seeds. [01:03:41] Speaker C: Right. [01:03:42] Speaker A: And those seeds, we never know what we say. And even just passing to somebody that that's going to be the seed that they need to hear. And then it's going to get them to the places where they can grow spirituality and relationship, grow in relationship with Jesus. That's what it's all about. [01:03:56] Speaker C: Well, Jennifer, thank you for joining us on Code Red. [01:04:00] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. [01:04:01] Speaker C: Thank you for jumping in here. Your first episode, fantastic job. [01:04:06] Speaker A: It's so fun and so, you know. [01:04:08] Speaker C: We'Ll just see where this goes. But you keep up the good work and anything you need from us, let us know. Okay? [01:04:13] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. What a joy to be here this morning. So fun. [01:04:17] Speaker C: Thank you for coming.