Gen Z Takeover

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. Okay. Pastor Zack. Terry, welcome to Code Red. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Thank you. This is different to be in this seat. [00:00:35] Speaker A: I know. I have always wanted to do that. Yeah, yeah. And I'm very excited today. So I get to be in the driver's seat. And today we're talking about Gen Z. It's a Gen Z takeover. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:00:46] Speaker A: So a little bit about Gen z is I'm 25 and you are Gen X, and I won't out your age unless I'm 50. [00:00:53] Speaker B: I'm not ashamed. I earned those years and those grades. [00:00:57] Speaker A: So we work together every single day. I'm your assistant. Right. You're my boss. And sometimes we get to see those generational differences come out and work, which, honestly I don't think we see too often because I kind of think you lean a little. Gen Z. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Well, I hired you and I was determined to hire somebody from really your generation. And, you know, the final, I guess maybe five or ten were in that age range just because I don't know what I don't know. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:28] Speaker B: And you know, I've got kids your age, but are younger. But I really wanted somebody who could represent your generation in the office system. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think I'll just say what the years are for Gen X, which is general, generally considered those born between 1965 and 1980, while Gen Z is those born between 1997 and 2012. And I was born in 2000. And yeah. I think that it's really interesting to see some of our differences and some of our similarities. I think one very Gen Z thing you do is you are a texter. You are not a caller. [00:02:10] Speaker B: I don't like phone calls. [00:02:11] Speaker A: You don't answer emails. [00:02:12] Speaker B: I let my voicemail fill up on purpose because I don't want people to leave me. I hate voicemails because it puts so [00:02:20] Speaker A: much pressure to call back. [00:02:21] Speaker B: There's that and there's just. There's so much going on, you know, in the office and things that have to have our immediate attention that I don't want to have to, like, remember to call somebody. I'll forget, you know, inevitably. And people take it personal. So I would rather them take it personal that they couldn't leave a voicemail. [00:02:39] Speaker A: That's smart. I'm going to have to start doing that. You're like, please don't do that. You're my assistant. You are supposed to answer my. [00:02:45] Speaker B: Well, you, you. I'm happy to text. That's always okay. [00:02:48] Speaker A: I'm a big texter. When somebody says call me, I'm like, What if I text you first? Right. So I think that is one of the biggest differences that we see between generations is technology and how it is used. I know when I was growing up, I. I kind of got an interesting experience growing up. I got to see life without so much technology. Like, we had tv, but it was kind of where if you wanted to watch a movie, you had to put it in the vhr. You had to rewind the movie. Vhs. Vhs? Yeah, vhs. Back into the tv, rewind it all the way back to the beginning, hit play, and then you got to go get comfy. [00:03:25] Speaker B: Be kind, rewind. [00:03:27] Speaker A: So how was your childhood growing up? What was your relationship with technology? [00:03:32] Speaker B: Well, dad was an early adopter, so. So a lot of what we do today, even with cameras and all that sort of thing, dad had a camcorder early on, and it was back when everything that your phone will do now, you know, you had to carry in a backpack to make it work. So we've got videos for hours of just our Thanksgiving and our Christmas. You know, when I would open presents, dad would just set it up and capture the moment, which I'm so thankful for. But, yeah, he would let me play with that stuff, and I would go in and figure out, like, dad couldn't set the clock on it, which is a common thing in our generation. We. Our parents didn't know how to use the technology they had. And so I would always take his camcorder and figure out how to cut, cut and clip scenes. I would shoot little movies in my bedroom. I did the entire, well, you know, 15 minutes of an Indiana Jones saga, you know, and played all the parts, and I don't know if we even know where that one's at anymore, but it was hilarious. And I would do the background music with a, you know, boombox in the background, and I would have to hit it and hit record at the right time and all that. But a lot of those kind of things dad did not want me to be ignorant about. So, probably at 10 or 11 years old, we got a big IBM computer system. And I remember then thinking, I can access through a modem, the entire Library of Congress database. And, you know, today you can access a thousand times that so quickly. But that was cutting edge at the time, and I loved it. I love staying right on the cutting edge of it. I think I still do today, really want to keep up with technology. [00:05:19] Speaker A: You are. Every time I walk into your office, you're showing me the latest thing that AI can do. [00:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:05:25] Speaker A: So you used to film Movies a lot growing up. Like Indiana Jones. What movie do you think now is a must see movie? [00:05:32] Speaker B: I think the first one you watch in a theater. Do you go to theaters? [00:05:37] Speaker A: I love going to the movies. [00:05:38] Speaker B: So the first one I watched was E.T. [00:05:40] Speaker A: oh. [00:05:41] Speaker B: And that was such a great experience. I remember walking out of the theater and realizing I was so caught up in that movie that now I'm back in the real world. And that was just a wonderful. The only other time I felt that was Avatar. When I first saw Avatar, for the first 10 minutes or so, you're getting used to the CGI and all that. And then when it's over, it's like, oh, this is the real. This is what the real world looks like. I forgot for a moment, you know. But the question was, what is a must see? [00:06:14] Speaker A: Must see? Your top. If anybody asks you for a movie recommendation, what are you telling them, really? [00:06:20] Speaker B: I think for multiple reasons. One of the first two Rockies. Have you seen the new Rocky that's coming out? [00:06:28] Speaker A: I haven't. The documentary about. I saw the trailer for it. I haven't seen it. [00:06:32] Speaker B: It looks so cool. [00:06:33] Speaker A: It does look cool. [00:06:33] Speaker B: I mean, the God nails the part. He does, but that. So, yeah, that one of those probably were. It both captured a biography. It was ambitious. It was a work that was done on a shoestring budget. I love all of that about the Rocky movies. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah. That is not what I thought you were gonna say. I thought it was gonna be Braveheart or something of that. [00:06:54] Speaker B: No. When I was that age, you know, and watching it on vhs, it was like, to this day, it's all I could do not to hit something while I'm watching the fight scenes. It really, really hit a chord for me. And I loved boxing anyway. But that was. That was probably one of the top ones, I would say. You gotta see that. [00:07:15] Speaker A: That is. That is so funny that that's your top choice. Mine would be Grease. Everybody knows I am a Grease super fan. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Mom was a Grease person. And we watched that anytime it was on television, we had to stop and watch it. And so we learned all the songs, all that stuff. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm a big Grease fan. [00:07:30] Speaker B: You're a romantic. [00:07:31] Speaker A: I am. All of my top favorite movies are, like, musicals or romances or musical romances. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Well, I remember I heard you say one day that when you would go to school, you were always wondering if the boy that you liked would see you or something like that. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Probably so. [00:07:48] Speaker B: And it's like, I remember that. I remember when I was, you know, kind of. I Would go on vacation and I would just know I was gonna meet, you know, the blond haired, blue eyed, you know, girl from Greece. And, you know, anything that was remotely feeding that. I remember a girl told me in a. In a store one day, she's like, I had a denim cap. She was trying to sell me a denim cap, which was so stupid. I would never wear a denim cap. But I tried it on and she said, oh, it brings out the blue in your eyes. And I'm just like, you got me. [00:08:19] Speaker A: You won me over. Right? That's so funny. But you did find your love in church. I did. [00:08:25] Speaker B: In Sunday school. [00:08:26] Speaker A: In Sunday school, when she came with her volleyball team. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Right. I'd been called in the ministry and, you know, it's just something. I traveled a lot and just with that, I knew that I needed a partner, I needed a bride, and was praying for that. My pastor said one day, he said he read the passage where it says, a godly wife is from the Lord. And so I started praying. I mean, literally that night I started praying, God, I'm not going to ask you for another date. I'm going to ask you for a wife. And kind of made that commitment that I'm not, not going to date someone that I don't take seriously as a potential wife. And so literally that next Sunday, and very few things happen this way, but that next Sunday, the entire volleyball team from Shoals Community College showed up. And Julie was in that team. Back then, the coach, you know, had a great walk with the Lord and just wanted to influence her team and so didn't make it mandatory, but invited all of them, and they were all [00:09:29] Speaker A: from the area or visiting generally north [00:09:32] Speaker B: Alabama, and the school was just down the street from the church. So I was in a different university and Julie was at Shoals. And so they all walk in and it was like the clouds parted and the sun shone on her, it seemed like to me. And I remember in that church they were really strict about guy girl relationships. And I was an outreach leader. And so the rule was we just go up and invite the young men and get their, like, I would fill out their guest card, invite them to sit with me, go to lunch with me, all that so that they would feel welcomed, you know. And so that day, Misty Bogus, who was the outreach leader for the girls, looked at me like, can you help me? And I'm like, yes, I can help. So I went up to Julie and got her name and number right then. And so I remember the first time, [00:10:24] Speaker A: it's the Obvious thing to do. Yeah. [00:10:25] Speaker B: And it was. I remember the first time I called her. Did you ever see Wonder Years? Is that okay? So, Kevin Arnold on Wonder Years, there are these moments where he's trying to call Winnie Cooper and he would call, like, and right before it rang, he would hang up. And I so did that with you. And I'm grown. I'm a college student and I'm. But I'm doing, you know, it's the old phone, you know, with the cord on it. And I would call, I'd get almost to the last number, I'd hang it up. [00:10:54] Speaker A: So there's no caller id. [00:10:55] Speaker B: No caller ID at that time. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:57] Speaker B: And then finally when she answered, I went into my preacher voice and I'm like, sister Julie, this is Brother Zach from First Baptist, you know, and I wanted to know if maybe you wanted to fellowship some. You know, it wasn't that bad, but it was pretty bad. And she was like, yeah, sure, whatever, you know. And I was just elated. [00:11:19] Speaker A: That is sweet. So how old were you at this time? [00:11:24] Speaker B: Probably 22. [00:11:26] Speaker A: 22. How far were you into becoming a pastor? [00:11:31] Speaker B: By that time, I'd surrendered to the ministry. I probably preached my first three sermons, I would guess. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Okay, so if you weren't a pastor, what would you be doing right now? [00:11:41] Speaker B: Well, my major was commercial music. My uncle had been a. He had been a singer and a fiddle player up in Nashville, was very successful at that. And I was a songwriter and musician and kind of probably something at that time, like an Alan Jackson style. And so I felt like I had a chance, but worst case scenario, I could work in that industry. I understood how the tech worked. I knew that I could manage people. So I thought I would either be a manager or producer if it wasn't ministry. [00:12:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So when you first started in ministry, or even years down the line, did you ever bomb a sermon? [00:12:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I bombed several. One in particular, I remember I had. I was sick and so much of it, the way that I preach is recall. So I write my sermons on Saturday and I have to be able to recall it the next day. So you want your brain to work the same way the next day. And it didn't. That day I was on Sudafed or whatever it was, and I walked in. I knew I did a horrible job. But there was a gentleman in our church who. This was my second church in Alabama. There was a gentleman in our church that was so encouraging. There's a different difference between encouragement and flattery. He wasn't one to flatter But. But he had the gift of encouragement. So every Sunday, I would go back. He was standing. He was a greeter. And at that church, you walk to the back of the church and you talk to people as they leave. There was one exit. So I went back to the door as they were praying out, and he would meet me every Sunday and tell me, hey, that was a great sermon. Here's what I really liked about that sermon. So I knew this particular Sunday, there was nothing he could say good about that sermon. I just killed it. I mean, in a bad way. And so I'm walking out, here he is, big smile, reaches out, shakes my hand. He says, pastor, I've just got to tell you, the sermon you preached two weeks ago was awesome. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Two weeks ago? [00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, you know, he was honest, but didn't flatter. That was a bad sermon. [00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I'd be like, two weeks ago. So does that mean last week was also not good? [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, probably. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. So you touched a little bit on that. You loved music, and I think everybody that knows you today knows that you love music, and you also have a son that is carrying on that love for music. When did you notice that music was something that you deeply connected with and not just something that you listened to? [00:14:21] Speaker B: So in our family, I don't know if this even exists now, but like Dancy Chapel Road and Trinity, Alabama, we all grew up on the same road. So, you know, most of my dad's brothers lived within five miles of my home. So we would go out in the morning, and I would walk down the hill to their house, and we would all, you know, play in the woods together. But it was common when I walked outside to hear my older cousins playing bluegrass music, and it would just. It was Dembo Holler. That's where we lived. And so, you know, you hear. You know, Dolly just passed away, and so I hear her talk about her upbringing. My dad was a baby of 12 kids. He was from a family, and it was just always there. When I was a little boy, dad was a drummer. And so if you ever notice, like, especially if they're rehearsing, they'll take the front off the drum, the bass drum, and put a pillow in there to muffle the sound. [00:15:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I've seen that. [00:15:20] Speaker B: I would. When I was, like, a toddler, I would crawl up on the drum and go to the pillow and go to sleep as dad was playing. Yeah. So it was literally hammered into my mind, you know, and have vivid memories about those times. But, you know, as A. As a child, probably the first song that I heard that was. That felt like more. It was probably gospel music was the first. When mom and dad started going to church. That church just had an unusual small church, 30 something people, but had the most gifted musicians. And so that had a big impact on me. And I remember I was the loudest singer in the church, and it wasn't very good, but I remember that. And then I remember seven Spanish Angels that Willie Nelson and Ray Charles did. And I would listen to that on repeat for hours. And to this day, Julie can tell you, if I get a song that I like, she gets so sick of [00:16:22] Speaker A: it, I'm that way, I will play a song to death. [00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So when, you know, it doesn't need to be. It doesn't have to be a new song, but when I find one I [00:16:32] Speaker A: really like, you latch on. [00:16:34] Speaker B: I feel like it's almost programming my brain to understand how the song's put together. And I think that's where the writing came from. [00:16:41] Speaker A: Do you eventually get sick of the song and you're like, all right, I [00:16:44] Speaker B: need a break after a good, probably maybe three days of listening to it non stop? Yeah. What was the one. Who's the guy that sounds like the 80s, the new guy. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Oh, the yodeling boy. That's. Now that's like more 50s. [00:17:01] Speaker B: Who's the guy, Julie, that I'm thinking of? I never tell a lie. Zach Topp. [00:17:07] Speaker A: Oh. [00:17:08] Speaker B: So when he came out with that song, I mean, if you could wear out an MP3, I would have, but it was that way. And it's not that I like everything he does, but that particular song resonated with me. I just wanted to listen to it over and over and over again. [00:17:23] Speaker A: So what was the first concert you ever attended? [00:17:25] Speaker B: Ricky Skaggs. You don't know who that is, do you? Ricky Skaggs was an incredibly gifted musician. Julie and I got to meet him. We got to go backstage. A member of our church invited us, and we got to go back and I got to tell him that. And I would watch his Live in London VHS tape over and over, studied him. And he was a high tenor. And my voice changed to a bass, so I couldn't sing his stuff today if I had to. But I knew every word to practically every. At least all the hits that he had. Yeah, he was. He grew up with Keith Whitley, and Keith Whitley had a big impact back [00:18:03] Speaker A: then as well, I think mine was. So I think it was a big group concert at Turner Field, the baseball stadium. But I can't remember. Do you know who sings Rainy Day in Georgia? Rainy Night in Georgia. [00:18:14] Speaker B: A lot of people sang it. There was a black guy that did it. [00:18:17] Speaker A: It wasn't him. It was somebody that covered it, I think. So he was there. Kenny Chesney was there, and a few other people were there. [00:18:23] Speaker B: So Conway Twitty did a version of it eventually. But that song, if you ever listen to Virginia, I wrote Virginia. That's one of Cole's, one that he recorded. And it begins with an allusion to that particular song. So go back and listen to it. [00:18:40] Speaker A: I love that song. Every Time it Rains. That is like the soundtrack in my mind when it rains. [00:18:44] Speaker B: Yep, I can hear Conway Twitty's version. There was an album called Country Rhythm and Blues that. It was probably one of my favorite albums in college. Check it out. It's really good. [00:18:55] Speaker A: I'll have to. So, last question about music. If you had to make a Mount Rushmore of all your favorite artists, it can be country. I'm assuming they'll all be country, but who would they be? [00:19:05] Speaker B: Honestly? I remember in high school, probably 11th grade, all my friends were on the football team. We would all hang out together and they would play Boys to Men and that sort of thing. [00:19:16] Speaker A: I love Boys to Men. [00:19:18] Speaker B: I did not know straight people listen to Boys to Men. That's how country I was. Yeah, I thought you only listen to country music. Maybe some classic rock. But that's just the way I was raised. I didn't know. I didn't know that was something men did. But I would probably say first, [00:19:40] Speaker A: I [00:19:40] Speaker B: would probably put Hank Williams Sr. After that, Merle Haggard. These are both singer songwriters. After that, the next two didn't write as much. Johnny Cash and George Jones. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Do you have any non country music artists that would be even close to making that list? No. No, not even close. That's so funny. I wish I could answer. [00:20:06] Speaker B: I respect them. Honestly. I like a lot of British artists, and so I respect the music and I enjoy the music, but I don't. Yeah, that. I'm not gonna be stuck on an island. [00:20:18] Speaker A: Listen, I can't even think of an answer for the Mount Rushmore, so I won't even try. I think. Kenny Chest, what was your go to [00:20:25] Speaker B: karaoke you said the other night? [00:20:26] Speaker A: Oh, I have a few go to karaoke. I. I grew up with parents that were very good at giving me a wide variety of music. So I like country, I like classic rock. I like all different types of music. Not really into rap, but there are some rap songs And I'm like, that's not that bad. [00:20:43] Speaker B: But I would if it. If mom was driving me to school, she would listen to Billy Joel. Yeah, I mean, I remember Billy Joel, Madonna, you know, all the 80s kind of early 80s rock stuff. So, like Uptown Girl. I remember that. You know, I would go to sleep at night with the radio playing and it would be Wolfman Jack. I don't know if you can even find that online. I'm sure you can, but Wolfman Jack was a DJ and I loved the music. He did a lot of oldies and stuff, so a lot of 50s stuff I really liked. [00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah. My karaoke song would be Making Love out of Nothing at all by Air Supply. [00:21:22] Speaker B: I don't know that I've ever heard it. [00:21:23] Speaker A: I'd maybe throw in some Beastie Boys, like no Sleep Till Brooklyn or Braz Monkey. I love Braz Monkey. [00:21:29] Speaker B: I have no clue what that is. [00:21:30] Speaker A: You have no clue what that is? [00:21:32] Speaker B: There's one Beastie Boy song I've heard. They're really good. There's one Beastie Boy song. [00:21:38] Speaker A: We're listening to the Beastie Boys. [00:21:39] Speaker B: All right, there's one. What was their biggest hit? [00:21:42] Speaker A: It's probably one no Sleep Till Brooklyn, I would assume. [00:21:45] Speaker B: I don't know. This is not my thing. [00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it'll be your thing after this. Trust me. [00:21:49] Speaker B: I like. I liked. I like Eminem. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:52] Speaker B: So I like hip hop. I like a lot of. I like pitbull, you know, Mr. Worldwide. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:00] Speaker B: So I'll appreciate the music, but at that age, it was just a no go. You're not gonna play that around my dad because it just wasn't our thing. [00:22:09] Speaker A: It. Also, if you're doing karaoke, it depends on the crowd you're around. Like, if I'm around an older generation, that would be the Air Supply and Beastie Boys. If I'm, like, doing karaoke with a younger crowd. Toby Keith. Yeah, Toby Keith is definitely where I would go. [00:22:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I could do any. You know, any of the Johnny Cash stuff would probably be something I'd be comfortable with. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's jump back to technology and being Gen Z. Gen X. So are there any ways that you find yourself as a Gen X relating to Gen Z? [00:22:42] Speaker B: I don't. I've never felt like I didn't relate to it. Yeah, I guess, you know, raising kids in that generation, wanting to be in that. We've always had a close family, had dinners together, you know, spent hours on a back porch swing talking, you know, and I never felt that disconnect. I Guess so. I would, I would notice when they would go through things like doom scrolling. Caitlin made her iPhone monotone because she didn't want it to be kind of a dopamine hit every time she got on. I don't feel that. So if I'm watching something, it's easy for me to walk away from. If I'm watching it, I'm interested in it, but I don't watch things I'm not interested in. I really don't use social media to get on to see what's going on in the world. Like with other people, I go on to post and get off. I just don't really, you know, it doesn't resonate with me the way it does. Gen Z. [00:23:38] Speaker A: So what do you think about Gen Z growing up with so much access? [00:23:42] Speaker B: I think that, I think that when, you know, for a Christian family and I've seen this so many times, we were afraid of the influence that it would have on our kids. So we put a lot of guardrails up and they, you know, kids are kids and they're going to find the way around those things. And so that was one thing that I noticed in a lot of my peers. Our kids got sort of tricky with that stuff and we didn't know it and so that would happen. So that worried me. For them, the access to bad stuff was there. Even though we did everything we could to try to stop it. They're gonna find it and sometimes you'll find it when you're not looking for it, you know, so those kind of things. I think the average age when a young man would see a pornographic image when I was a kid was like 12. And the last I read it was like 5 to 7. [00:24:46] Speaker A: What? [00:24:46] Speaker B: And that really has a impact on a person's brain. [00:24:50] Speaker A: That's shocking. [00:24:51] Speaker B: It's true though. And it's just, you know, I worry about that for them. I think the counseling that I've done with young men bears that out, that they're dealing with some psychological issues in that area that our generation didn't in the same way. So those type things, I think putting themselves out there, you know, I would hear, if you're going to tell me something that's going to hurt my feelings, you're going to do it in person. Yeah, and that always kind of puts a governor on what somebody's going to say. But you know, and I also, in my day it was very normal to have a fistfight. That was from fourth, I think my first fight was in fourth grade and that was Just a normal thing. I mean, you get black eyes, you deal with it, and, you know, you go on that rare. I think one time somebody attacked Cole. That was older, but that was just not a normal thing for them. They didn't think about going to their peer group and somebody getting in a fight. And you were raised to be prepared for that. Dad would say, ever start a fight? [00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but finish it. [00:26:03] Speaker B: Finish it. He said, you have my permission to get suspended if you're defending yourself. [00:26:09] Speaker A: My dad said the same thing. [00:26:11] Speaker B: So I remember in seventh grade, somebody said something to me to humiliate me, and I just knocked the fire out of him and we tied up. And I remembered in fourth grade, I got a black eye and I said, whatever happens, I'm not going to out with more black eyes than he's got. And I wore him out. And dad picked me up. I was getting suspended for two or three days, and dad told the principal, he said, hey, give him whatever punishment's fair. But I gave him my permission. The principal was like, I'd have done the same thing. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that would not happen in two days. [00:26:48] Speaker B: If you misbehaved at our high school, a big football coach would take a big paddle and lay into you. That was normal. If two boys. I remember Coach Ferguson came in like 10th grade, and if two boys, you could tell when they're kind of getting. Watching two dogs getting close to a fight. And he would say, boys, put on the gloves, get in the ring, fight it out. And we had a boxing ring at our high school, and he would put them in the ring and they would just. And really, it was super healthy for that generation because they would leave. They're not mad at each other anymore. They would normally hug, you know, it's super therapeutic. But they would fight it out, get that adrenaline out and that testosterone out, and they ended up being buddies after that, respecting each other. [00:27:42] Speaker A: Let's bring it back. I'm just kidding. [00:27:44] Speaker B: It may not be a bad idea. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think one thing that a lot of people in Gen Z hear, hear their parents say is the classic back in my day. So back in my day, we used to do this. Back in my day, we used to trek to our high school. Back in my day, we had to go to the library to look something up. So your generation is used to having to go out and find information if you need it. My generation is used to having it in our pockets, having access to so many different beliefs, worldviews, opinions, and we just. We have it right in our pocket. So how do you think that affects the way that my generation views faith? [00:28:24] Speaker B: I think, I don't mean this offensively, but I think sometimes they think they know more than they know. [00:28:30] Speaker A: I agree. [00:28:31] Speaker B: And I think they go wide, but not very deep. And you know, I would encourage young men especially to, you know, Abraham Lincoln used to say, if a rabbit came across his brain, he's going to catch the rabbit, he's going to chase it till he catches it. And so I would encourage them to go deep in some of these things. Normally the answers are there. You just got to have the tenacity to go after it. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I see a lot of Gen Z letting the answers come to them more so than like we can Google anything in two seconds, but they'll scroll across a video that tells them how to feel about a certain topic and it's very much like, okay, that's how I feel about this topic. [00:29:10] Speaker B: And Proverbs says the first to speak sounds right until they're cross examined. And so I think you're right. There's a lot of times I saw it with a Palestinian issue, someone would make a stirring appeal on TikTok about free Palestine and a young person would see two or three of those and they would feel like that's my position, but they wouldn't let it be cross examined. [00:29:35] Speaker A: So do you think Gen Z is more skeptical than other generations or do you think they just have more access to and more freedom to ask? [00:29:42] Speaker B: I don't think they're more skeptical. My generation, I believe, tends to be more conspiracy driven. And I think we've just lived through a lot and we've seen, you know, in the 80s, interest rates were sky high and we, you know, you went from Reagan to Clinton in very short time and those are two very different men. And in some ways great in their own right, but morally and the way they presented themselves to the world was very different. And gosh, Trump is radically different in what he considers presidential. You know, we were raised with a certain understanding. It was important because that's how you kind of rated manhood. [00:30:27] Speaker A: Right? [00:30:27] Speaker B: What is, what is a leader? What is presidential? And so that's just changed so much from what we considered the norm to where it is today. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. [00:30:40] Speaker A: So when I started preparing for this Gen Z takeover and kind of looking into all the questions that Gen Z would have, specifically about Christianity and God and faith in general, I noticed that a lot of them were very fundamental, basic questions. And I think that's because when you really look at Gen Z, their ages are 14 to 29. So I came to faith at 16, I believe you said you came to faith at 19, so 18. So this is the time frame that people are really coming to terms with their faith and starting to ask those kind of basic questions. So yeah, I'm just excited to kind of walk through some, some of those with you and kind of start at the beginning with Genesis and creation and, and just what Christians think about when they hear that God created the earth in six days. Because I think that six days kind of stumps a lot of people because we feel like we can't do much in six days, but the Lord of the Universe can. But it's trying to make that connection and how that makes sense. So what would you say? [00:31:42] Speaker B: Well, and you know, if you go to any major museum in D.C. or in any state, you're going to find every exhibit is going to presume evolution. And so that's so drilled into the mind of your generation. My generation, even in high school, they would acquaint us with evolutionary theory. But the teacher had the freedom to say, you know, many of us don't hold to this. We hold to a young earth, a six day creation. So I would say a couple of things. I read it in the scripture and it seems that Jesus believed that what was said in the first couple chapters of Genesis were literal, concrete. He seemed to operate on the Lord creating the heavens and the earth on six days and then resting. He referred to that. So I've always just taken it at face value that it was as it says in Genesis 1 and 2. I sincerely believe that's the way it happened. With that said, you know, when God made the first man, when he made Adam and he made Eve, they were mature, they were not embryonic. So Adam was created as if he had gone through the maturity process. It's the way it reads so of the dust of the earth he made, man breathed into him the breath of life. My read of that is you have a 30 year old standing before you who looks like he's lived 30 years. He was created, mature. And so I've also believed when you look at the earth, it sort of looks like it went through those processes in some ways. And another thing to keep in mind is the first couple of verses. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void. The spirit of God hovered over the surface of the deep. We do not know how long it was in that state before God said, let there Be light. And there was light, and then morning and evening, first day. [00:33:57] Speaker A: So [00:34:00] Speaker B: it could have. You know, there could be some validity to scientific data that shows a very old earth simply because we don't know how long it was there before day one occurred. In that primordial state, it was uninhabitable. But there weren't animals, There weren't those sort of things. But the soil itself could be very old. The six days of creation I take literally, but I do not make them part of the gospel message. So I would say to somebody that's gen Z or gen X or whatever, don't let that keep you from Christ. We can get to that later. And there are good people that hold different positions in that. So, you know, the gospel of we're sinners. Christ came to save sinners. He died on the cross for our sins, was raised again. That doesn't address the creation narrative. So that's kind of the way I've always presented it. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Okay, and talking about science, do you think Christianity and Scientology are fundamentally at odds, or are there parts of science that you can believe? [00:35:18] Speaker B: When you say Scientology, you don't mean the religion. [00:35:20] Speaker A: You just mean science in general. I didn't mean Scientology. I meant science. [00:35:26] Speaker B: I would say when scripture speaks to science, it's accurate. It's not a science book. Yeah, when it speaks to history, it's accurate. It's not a history book. You know, it's a message of God's redemption of humanity. It's the beginning, you know, from beginning to new beginning, Eden, creation, at the end, new creation. But when it addresses all those things, it's accurate. And over time, I mean, in my lifetime, I've seen science change so many times. I've not seen scripture change, and I've seen science catch up with scripture over time. So I think if you went back a thousand years and found a solid believer who understood and read the text, what they came, the conclusions they came to would be remarkably accurate. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Okay, and then I think the most common question that Gen Z has that I see almost daily is, why does God thing? Why does God allow bad things to happen? And where does evil come from? If he created all good, why would he create evil? [00:36:28] Speaker B: That's a good question. That's one we all wrestle with. I think God knew that we would wrestle with that. The first book penned, before Genesis or Exodus or Leviticus, the first book that was written down was the book of Job. And it's this epic poem about a man who was righteous according to every evaluation of his contemporaries. And Even God says there's no person like him. And he lost everything in heaven. There's this conversation between God and the devil. And God gives him limited permission to attack Job. And he loses everything. Loses his kids, he loses his wealth, his friends kind of turn on him. [00:37:13] Speaker A: And. [00:37:14] Speaker B: And so at the end of the book, it resolves. But that was the, you know, for hundreds of years, that was the book of Scripture that the people, the covenant people of God had to deal with because it's such. It's very, very Christ anticipating. You know, Job is wrestling with this question of, can anybody lay a hand on God and understand God and simultaneously understand my suffering? And he felt this distance from the Creator. And that question wasn't answered for a thousand years when Christ was born. Christ was the one who could understand our suffering, suffered more than we have, and he could understand the ancient of the days at the same time. And so God anticipates that we're going to wrestle with those things. I'm of the opinion that everything that exists in all of history is to demonstrate the glory of God. I'm in keeping with the Westminster Confession of Faith in that sense. Our purpose is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. So I would say, and you've heard me explain it before, if you think of God, and anytime we use an illustration of God, it's limiting. So I'm not going to say this is not how God is, but it's a way to understand it. If you think of God as a many faceted jewel, and each facet of that diamond or that ruby, each facet is one of his attributes. So it may be his goodness, his holiness, it may be his wisdom, his creativity, it may be his wrath, it may be his judgment. If there had been no fall, then there would be aspects of God's nature that the created order would not comprehend fully. And because the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the garden, and because mankind fell because Satan fell, there are aspects of God that were fleshed out that can be comprehended. And that's the purpose of all things, whether it's the things that people in the past have suffered or things that we suffer personally in some way, we get to know our God better through that. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that is a great answer. And something that I think comes up often is when you read Genesis, you just wonder, why was the tree put in the Garden of Eden to begin with? If God knew that Adam and Eve were going to eat the fruit? [00:39:56] Speaker B: Well, if there had been no fall, there would be nothing to forgive and the mercy and the grace of God would never be demonstrated to his created order because of the Fall, forever and forever and forever. And I've said this, that the cross is the climax of that picture where we see the holiness of God that could not look on the sin that Christ, he knew no sin, but he bore our sin on the cross. And the holiness of God must judge sin. So we see the wrath, the fury of God poured out on Jesus. We see the grace of God provided through Jesus. And all of those things come together. The jewel, the facets, the light hits the jewel from every angle and it's glorious. And so through all of that we know through the cross and the resurrection, we know our God as well as a person may know His God. And throughout eternity, you'll see in heaven people glorifying God because of his grace. You'll see in hell the glory of God through His holiness that can't look upon sin. So all of that makes sense, even things practically the Holocaust, that is so incomprehensible how people can do that to each other in some way. The glory of God is manifest in his ability to preserve his people, the Jews, through that. So all of those things are casting light on an aspect of God we would otherwise not understand. [00:41:39] Speaker A: Yeah, and I really like how you use the multifaceted jewel as a representation and that one of those facets is wrath and judgment. And those are characteristics. And I think that's something that people really struggle to reconcile with in. As you move further into the Old Testament and you can see God's judgment poured out onto certain groups of people. So what would you. How would you explain that to a non believer so that they can reconcile with that? [00:42:04] Speaker B: Well, and I would say if you read a systematic theology book, it ranks the things that you must understand from order of greatest to least. Well, the first thing, it doesn't start with God. It starts with revelation, meaning the scriptures that God has spoken of Himself. He's given us things that we should understand and believe about Him. Well, you have to have that before you can talk about who God is. What God are we talking about? And I think a lot of young people, a lot of people in Gen Z have fallen for the idea that you can conceptualize how you think of God without coming to see what does he say of Himself. And so he's spoken. You go and you look at what he's done, what he said, and oftentimes he will explain. Sometimes there's mystery there. I think one of the favorite verses is it's the glory of God to conceal a matter. It's the glory of kings or leaders to search them out. And there's a pursuit and there's mysteries that we try to figure out. But in reference to things like in the Old Testament, when God judged people, is that what you're talking about? You know, he would call his people to go in and annihilate every living thing. And those type of stories are difficult for anybody to understand. Why would you do that and all that we can do? And again, I can't tell you absolutely his reasoning, all that we can do is take other times when he did that and presume it must have been a similar motivation. So we know he wiped out humanity all but Noah's family at the great Flood. We know that in Sodom and Gomorrah, he. He wiped out every living thing. And in both of those instances, he tells us why he did it. With the flood story, it's preceded by this bizarre relationship that was the most perverse imaginable between fallen angels and women, human women, that produced the nephilim, and that led to such a dangerous place that God said, I can no longer look upon it. And he wiped out humanity all but Noah's family in Sodom and Gomorrah. We know, obviously, Sodomy, that's where the word comes from, that that was a big part of what was going on in those cities. But beyond that, when the angels showed up to warn Lot and his family, they demanded that he send the angels out that they could know them in a biblical sense. And so the thoughts and the intentions of the heart were so perverse that God said, enough. Now we know that. We know flood, we know Sodom and Gomorrah, we know why he wiped them out. So when the children of Israel are coming into the promised land, and God says, wipe them out, and it even says he waited for the transgression and iniquity to get to a certain place before he did that. We can presume probably pretty accurately that some of the same things were going on there. And God says, judgment's going to fall. It's going to fall through my covenant, people, you know, it's over. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Right. So there are a lot of things that are in Old Testament laws that Christians don't necessarily follow today. How do we know which biblical commands still apply to Christianity? [00:45:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So when you take the law of God, it's 400 some odd commandments, and it's divided into sections. And this is where a lot of boomers and millennials Even don't understand this. There are moral aspects of the law. So like the Ten Commandments would be mostly moral. There was one ceremonial law given in the Ten Commandments, and it's keep the Sabbath, but it's mostly moral revelation of the character of God. And we're reflectors, we're image bearers. So we're to act with a moral rectitude of our Creator. And so the moral law tells that that's going to be true in a million years. That never goes away. But there's also religious ceremony that was specifically for the covenant people of Israel. That was an ethnic people. It was a, you know, biblically speaking, you're either Jewish or you're gentile. You're of the nations. Do you have Jewish background? [00:46:45] Speaker A: I think far back somewhere. [00:46:48] Speaker B: So let's just say for the sake of the conversation that we're gentile. And as gentile people, those ceremonial aspects were not given to us. The Jewish people were to keep those laws. And those are things, everything from circumcision to the sacrificial system and kosher dietary laws. And so all of those things together, those were types and shadows that were fulfilled in the coming of Christ. So, you know, it's the difference between seeing a sign that says Miami this way and being in Miami. When the substance came, the sign was no longer necessary. So when Christ came, he fulfilled the law perfectly and completely. And we see as the Church in the New Testament, in the Book of Acts, is reaching into the Gentile community, even the Council at Jerusalem did not expect them to keep those aspects of the law. They were to keep the moral aspects, but not the ceremonial. Not things like if you have two different types of fabric sewn together, that would violate that command. That's different than saying adultery is a sin, you know, so the moral aspect of adultery is forbidden. The weaving of two garments together no longer holds the same application or implication for the church as it did under Israel. So it's very. It's just an understanding of the text. He never expected us to keep those aspects. [00:48:27] Speaker A: Right. So we hear a lot about Israel. You see a lot in the Bible about Israel. You hear a lot about it in the news today. So I would like to understand how in the Bible, Israel is as God's chosen people and what Christians are supposed to think about that today. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Okay. It's remarkable that Israel is such that the political Israel, and I'll refer to them politically, ethnically and religiously. But political Israel is such a small piece of real estate, but for thousands of Years, that piece of real estate has dominated the news, so to speak. That in itself says something. If the whole world was concerned about Fernandina beach, that would be weird. Yeah, it's a little bitty part of an island and it doesn't boast a great natural resources. Why does everybody want to own that part of the world? And that's, you know, the size of Israel is the distance between here and Orlando. And so it's very small. And most of the Bible happened in that, that square footage, so to speak, and God from Abram promising him this particular land with specific borders to his descendants. The covenant flowed from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob and then the 12 tribes. And throughout history, God says, that's yours. And he judged them, he removed them from that land and put them into exile, scattered them over the face of the planet. And, and you know, in our parents, my parents lifetime, they were brought back. A nation was born in a day, literally before, in the generation that's still alive saw that. And so it's remarkable how scripture's been fulfilled in the Old Testament. They were the elect of God, they were the chosen people. God chose to reveal his saving purpose to, to them. And he was supposed to reveal it through them. They were to be a city set up on a hill. You know, the temple complex had a Gentile court that people that our forefathers were supposed to go to and learn of the good God of Israel. And in large part they failed in that purpose. The times that we saw Jesus not lose his temper, but display righteous indignation and wrath was when he saw that the money changers had set up shop in the Gentile court, making it difficult for them to come to faith. And so that was the purpose of Israel. They were to be a peculiar people, a special people. They were. But many times they fell short of what God wanted for them. And ultimately they did when Christ came unto his own and his own received him not. And so even this Sunday we're going to talk about how God, he broke off the natural branch of the olive tree, which is Israel, and he grafted in the unnatural, which is the Gentiles from every tribe and tongue. And the church age began. And at the end of time we're told that Israel, the natural, the unnatural, be broken off. And that's the taking away of the Gentile church and then the grafting back in of the Jewish people. And you'll see probably millions of Jews around the world suddenly come to faith in Messiah, right? [00:52:03] Speaker A: And yesterday we talked about it a little bit and you told me something interesting about Isaiah 53 that I thought I would like to hear it again. [00:52:12] Speaker B: Isaiah 53 is the most obvious passage in the Prophets of Christ. A friend of mine who really had a ministry to reach the Jewish people, he studied their system of faith, their liturgy. So they have certain readings that if you're brought up in Torah school, if you're brought up in a synagogue, on certain days you'll read certain passages of scripture. But ironically, Isaiah 53 is not included in that list. So most of our Jewish friends have not read that book chapter. So what he will do when he's witnessing to a Jewish person, he will read Isaiah 53 without telling them where it's at. And it's such a clear description of the life, the death, the resurrection of Christ. And so he'll read it and then he'll ask, where do you think this is found? And they'll say, well, it's in your New Testament, obviously. And he's like, no, this is in your Old Testament. And it shocks the Jewish follower, the one who practices Judaism. He's never heard it before. And it's so clearly pointing to one person in history that's the Messiah of Israel, Jesus Christ. And so the New Testament, Paul tells us in Romans that there's a veil over their eyes that, you know, thankfully we have some Messianic brethren, Jewish brethren, but most of the New Testament was written by Messianic Jews. But they cannot see their own Messiah. And that's part of the judgment. Part of the judgment is the punishment that they're undergoing is that they're clouded from understanding truth of redemption. And one day that'll be lifted, thankfully. So we pray for that day. We wait for that day. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Right. So I think in the news currently, I think everything that you see is about Israel and the Palestinian war. So where do you think Christians should land on that, about caring for Israel, but also caring for Palestinians? What do you think the stance on war and civilians and national self defense should be for a Christian? [00:54:31] Speaker B: There's, there's multiple ways that you have to view that and, and some of those overlap. Some of them do not. As an ally in the Middle East, Israel's our longest, most faithful ally. Doesn't mean they haven't at times crossed the line and spied on Americans and done things that are not acceptable. They are human and they do things that they shouldn't do at times. Not only that, in large part they're not Christian, so they're going to do non Christian things. So we remember that we look at Israel as a political entity, as an ally, and we treat them like any other ally from one perspective. And their existence is one, it's owed to the Lord. But secondly, he's used America to protect them so many times. And so they're our ally. We treat them with sincerity as an ally. At the same time, they are a unique entity politically in history that we look at and say, God's one day promised to save that nation. And it appears if we look into the future through prophecy, it appears that the sacrificial system will return. And a lot of the things that they were doing in the Old Testament, they're going to be doing in the future. There's going to be a temple there. Antichrist will set up shop on the Temple Mount, we're told. So for that reason, Christians particular have a different love for the Jewish nation and the Jewish people because of what we're told is going to happen there one day. So you recognize that that would make them maybe different in our commitment level than Great Britain, for example, that we also have a great ally, great history there. So that ties us to Israel in a unique way. At the same time, historic Christianity has had a just war theory. And there are certain things that are worth going to battle over, and there are certain things that are not worth going to battle over. There are certain things that should be considered immoral in warfare. And so when Israel violates that, we have to be honest about it. We have to be able to speak truth, even to people that we care about. And so if they violate that with the Palestinians, then it's wrong if they. You look at the Palestinian people, the thing that would surprise a lot of Christians is that we have more Christians on the Palestinian side than we do on the Jewish side. And they're sincere believers. They're not all Muslim. So you have churches in Palestinian territory, so sincere believers in Palestinian territory. And when you meet those people, it makes it a little bit more difficult to figure out how to resolve the problems. The land itself, from my perspective, God gave it to the Jews. It will be theirs throughout eternity. And I'm going to always vote and work in favor of that. The way that they've treated the Palestinians, on one hand, the fact that they allow them to be there is remarkable. And the average. I've been to Israel many times, and to see the way that they interact with one another, I think this is important for people watching. They have to work together the way you and I have to work together. And so there might be times when I get on your nerves. And you just kind of have to deal with it and knock off our rough edges and make it work. Their kids grow up together. They're not at each other's throat perpetually. There's a minority of people on both sides that are throwing the rocks, that are making the bombs and constantly agitating disruption. And they are the minority. And I think that's something that would surprise most of our viewers is that's not the way it is on the streets for the average Israeli or Palestinian. But yeah, solving those problems. It's not really the United States issue to solve. Israel's got to solve those problems. And sometimes they do it correctly. I think sometimes they do it incorrectly. But, you know, I'm not in that position. [00:59:25] Speaker A: Right. I think one thing that a lot of people my age are trying to reconcile with currently is, and especially Christian Gen Z, a thing that they always are wondering is why does our God get blamed for all the bad things that happen in the world? So bad things happen every single day. But non believers seem to pinpoint this to. To our God, the Judeo Christian God. Yes. And not others. So why do you think that is? [00:59:56] Speaker B: There's a growing movement that's been growing since before World War II of Marxism. And Marxism in those days, if you look back at Hitler, you look back at Stalin, Marxism in those days was a violent warlike disruption. And so it was urban warfare, it was guerrilla warfare. Whether you're looking at Vietnam, whatever it might be, in order to disrupt the political hegemony, the people who are in power, that didn't work for them very well. So Marxists, the leaders of the Marxist movement, who are European, and it migrated to the States and it was found in many of the. It migrated through the university system. The Marxist ideology shifted from a warlike revolution to more of a civic revolution. So you have to identify who's in power, who is the authority. And so this is where in the university system in recent days, in your generation, suddenly it's white males, it's Christians, it's predominantly cisgender. So to flip things that the world system or the CIS civic order upside down, they attack that object. And that's the Judeo Christian God throughout history. And so that's honestly, in some parts of the world, that's rapidly changing. Islam is a serious threat, like it really hasn't been since the Middle Ages. But Islam is growing rapidly in many parts of the United States and around the world. But as it is right now, it's our God that they're. That they're coming after. [01:02:06] Speaker A: Right. I think one of the big thing that stands out, Christians against other religions is our exclusive claim that your way to salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. Can you kind of unpack that for maybe a non believer? Why we say that's the case? [01:02:22] Speaker B: Well, it's just simply because that's what Jesus said, right? You know, he said, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me. He said that there's one shepherd, there's one gate, that anyone who comes in a different way is a thief and a robber. So there's not. We're not given. We are people of the Book and we limit ourselves to that revelation. We're not adding to it, we're not taking away from it. We're trying to just communicate it. And that's what our faith says. So as much as we might look at it and say, hey, if it were just me and you're faithful Buddhist or whatever, and you mean, well, me as a person, I might say, sure, come on in, I'd love to hang out with you. Nothing personal against anybody, but as it is reality and the revelation of God is that he's provided one way for people to be reconciled to him is through Jesus Christ. [01:03:23] Speaker A: I saw a clip this week of. I think it was Howie Mendel. And if it's not, I'm so sorry for saying it was. Of him interviewing one young Christian influencer and they were talking about Jesus being the only way. And Howie Mandel was like, well, there's got to be other ways. I have good morals, I do good works, I give to charity. There has to be another way. So I think that's one thing a lot of people struggle with, is that their good works don't get them through. [01:03:49] Speaker B: Well, and that's the, that's the thing. From God's perspective, they aren't that good. You know how he's comparing himself against Adam Sandler or whoever, he's comparing himself with himself and probably I don't know who the man is, I don't know who he is, but I don't know him personally. But probably compared to the average person on the streets, compared to me, he may be one of the sweetest people you've ever met. From God's perspective, I can't tell you in a public way. I might write it down and share it with you. God says all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. That is a disgusting, revolting term. And he doesn't say all of our bad things are filthy. Rags. He says the best thing we ever came up with apart from Christ is a filthy, filthy, disgusting rag. And what Howie thinks he's done so well at, God's not as impressed as Howie is. And God's the one that makes the decision. So Christ is the only one who had true righteousness and he imparts that. When we trust him, he imparts that to us. So we're clothed in Christ's righteousness. We do good works after that, not for salvation, but from salvation. [01:05:10] Speaker A: Right. I think when you open up salvation, if salvation was a can and you open it up and you start talking about it, when you talk to non believers, there are many questions that come out of that can, many follow up questions on how this is possible. One of those being sincere people who follow other religions. So how can you sincerely follow another religion? And what happens to those people or what happens to the people never heard about Jesus Christ? Maybe they are on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere and don't have access. [01:05:43] Speaker B: Well, you know, there's been times, back before GPS came along, do you remember a day without gps? [01:05:49] Speaker A: I do. We used to print. Well, actually it's still gps, I guess, but we used to print out instructions from the computer like Google Maps. The Google Maps instructions, which is still gps, but we have to take the paper. [01:06:00] Speaker B: Well, as a child, you know, we had Rand McNally atlases when I was in college and you had to study your route, sometimes a road sign would be changed or taken down and I would have promised you every penny I had that I was on the right course, that I was heading to Montgomery and I ended up in Nashville or whatever. It was not I was sincere, but I was wrong. And that it's aggravating when it happens on the road. It's devastating when it happens to your soul. And there is an absolute right and wrong. There is an absolute way to be saved and there's no other way. So a person can be as sincere as they want to be. I don't question sincerity. I do believe there are people who are very sincere in their religion. It's just not a way to the Father. And so that's not my decision to make. That's God's revelation that that's what he said. [01:07:01] Speaker A: Right. And then what about the people who just don't have the opportunity, maybe stranded on an island? [01:07:08] Speaker B: This is one where I'm going to have to ask our viewers to kind of maybe give this some time to sink in. But they're going to have to remember from God's Perspective, you know, God in one sense, he's looking right at us right now, but he's. He sees the big view of history. And this is difficult to even put into words without drawing it out. But, you know, if you follow the trajectory of revelation and what was known of God, let's presume Adam and Eve, when they're cast out of the garden, all that could be known of God from that point, they knew. They communicated it to their kids. And you track that on through the Great Flood. So it's oral tradition. Nothing's written down. Job hasn't. The first book is not. The first one written, has not existed yet. But oral tradition is handed down from Adam and Eve all the way to Noah. And Noah, his family is preserved on the ark. They come off the ark, everything that's been handed down, they have at that point, they hand it down orally to their. Their progeny, all the way up to Babel. And at Babel, the Tower of Babel, God says, fill the earth, go into all the world. They don't want to do that. They don't want to be scattered. So they build the tower and God scatters. Their language makes them have to obey him. And when they scattered into all the world, you had my ancestors going up into Europe. You know, some went to the east, to Asia, some went down to Africa and even over to the Americas. Native Americans and Aztecs, Mayans. They carried what could be known of God, which would include creation, it would include the global flood, and they carried that with them. But According to Romans 1, they chose to worship the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. If that's true, you would expect to find an origin story that's similar to Genesis in all these ancient faiths. And you would expect to find a flood epic somewhere in those stories. And that's what we found in literally every ancient people group. We see an Adam figure, we see a creation narrative, we see a Noah figure, we see a global flood, and it's changed. You would also expect them not to represent God properly, but rather something in creation. We see that as well. God came down and made covenant with Abram and revealed himself to Abraham. Isaac and Jacob established the covenant with them, and the posterity of Israel preserved truth. Moses wrote down the book of Genesis for the first time, and this was an accurate revelation of what Noah would have known by oral tradition. And so that's the way that it happened. So if you take the person on the island who's there by himself, he's never heard any gospel he doesn't know scripture. He's somewhere in his past. If you go back up the family tree, there was a person who did know who made the choice to reject the Creator, to worship creation. So the poor guy on the island is suffering for that decision. He's also got natural revelation. He's got. We're told that there's a certain amount of the knowledge of God that could be understood just by observation. He's got conscience. All of those things together would not necessarily lead you to the conclusion of the gospel narrative. That's why we must have missionaries to go and give him the missing element of the gospel truth. But if he dies having never heard, there is no plan B. He dies without Christ, he suffers eternity in hell. [01:11:26] Speaker A: Right. I think what really helped me come to terms with that explanation was thinking about my family. And we. If there was an award for embellishing stories, we would win that award. We recently, during the Fourth of July week, before we planted a flagpole that was. It was about. This isn't an embellishment. It's the size of a school flag pole. But as we have told this story to more and more people, we did it on the 4th of July. Toby Keith was playing, Bald eagles were flying, fireworks. [01:11:56] Speaker B: Dressed it up a little bit. [01:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah, we dressed it up a little bit. So that really helps me understand how a story over time could change and that God would have to interfere and be like, all right, you've all really telephoned this. [01:12:09] Speaker B: It is interesting. Do you know when the Declaration of Independence was signed? [01:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:14] Speaker B: When? [01:12:15] Speaker A: 1776. [01:12:16] Speaker B: What date? What do we. [01:12:18] Speaker A: July 4th. [01:12:19] Speaker B: You know when it was actually signed? [01:12:21] Speaker A: Not July 4th, not July 4th. [01:12:23] Speaker B: It was actually signed on the 3rd. Probably scattered. They came in at different times and signed it the fourth. [01:12:29] Speaker A: Just. It was finished. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Somebody. Well, it really wasn't even. It was completed on the third. But historically, that's what's been handed down. You know, if you read John Adams, John Adams said, July 2nd will be a day that we will celebrate throughout our posterity. And at the end of his life, he said, well, it wasn't the second, it was the fourth. We're going to celebrate the Fourth. But, yeah, those things do change over time. And some of it probably was honest mistakes and passing the story down. But some of it was at some point a person decided, if there's a personality that's deity and he existed before me, I must subject myself to his will. If I can create a God in my own image, I can kind of do what I want because I'll make him as mean as I am or as perverse or whatever. His morals would be, my morals. And that's what you see. Someone said God created man in his own image, and man has returned the favor ever since. You know, we're creating gods in our own image. [01:13:37] Speaker A: So there are a people group, though, that are safe. So I would like you to dive into that a little more. [01:13:44] Speaker B: So we talked a little bit yesterday about children or maybe those who are mentally handicapped and unable to comprehend the truth from my reading of Scripture, and there are Christians who would disagree with this. But from my reading of Scripture, I would not describe them as saved. I would describe them as safe. And I would base that on. Probably one of my favorite texts was when David had sinned with Bathsheba. She was pregnant. They had a child. And Nathan comes and calls David out. David repents of his sin, but he says, your child will die. This will be part of your punishment. David cries out to God. He fasts and he prays. His staff is worried about him. It looks like he's going to go over the edge, you know. And so eventually the child does die, as God said, despite David's prayers. And the staff is hesitant to tell David because they fear that he will maybe make a horrible decision. He overhears their conversation and he demands they tell what happened. They said, you son is dead. To their surprise, David gets up, he cleans his face, he sits down for a feast and goes on about his life. And they're confused. They say, well, David, why, if you were that upset over the sickness of the child, why did the death of the child not devastate you? And he said, because the child cannot come to where I am anymore, but I will go to where the child is. So we would presume David is a man after God's own heart, that he's in heaven today and he's with this child today. That child, therefore, being safe, went to heaven. How do we explain that? There's language throughout the Old Testament that speaks of an age. It's not a specific number. It may be different for different people. But an age where a person knows enough to reject the evil and choose the good, where they know. In Jonah, God says, I've got thousands of people in Nineveh who don't know their left hand from their right. And those are probably people who are below that age of accountability. So Jonah's wanting God to wipe out Nineveh. God says, don't look at it that way, because there are people there made in my image who are my people, he says, that don't know their left hand from their right. So that would presume that these are people under the age of accountability or maybe handicapped mentally. And it seems to present that those people are safe in God's eyes. [01:16:26] Speaker A: Right. So I know you kind of talked through this next question a few Sundays ago. We're in Romans right now, so we're kind of answering a lot of these questions right now that I'm reading to you. But one big thing that comes up a lot is why would a finite lifetime of sin. So at the oldest, maybe I'll live to 80 years. Why would 80 years of living in sin cause for an eternal punishment? [01:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it seems. It seems unjust or it seems disproportionate, but the issue is not proportionate. It's the person that you've sinned against. So I've used the illustration, I think it was original with D.A. carson or Tim Keller, that if you see a little child and he's got a grasshopper and he's pulling the legs off that grasshopper, then you would say, that's wrong. You shouldn't do that. It's inhumane. But you probably wouldn't, like, lose nights of sleep there. Yeah, you just correct them. Move on. If you see the same child pulling the legs off of a kitten, you're like, this kid's got issues. We're going to get him to a doctor really quick. And it's because the dignity of the cat is greater than the dignity of the grasshopper. Well, you carry that to the relationship of, if I sin against you, that's wrong. I shouldn't sin against you, you're going to have an issue with that. If I lie to my dog, and I do frequently trick him and he doesn't like it, but if I lie to my wife, her dignity is greater than his. So the same sin has different consequences. Well, if you lie to the Supreme Court, then that has even greater consequences, because the dignity of the court is greater than the dignity of the citizen. We carry that on to the Creator of the universe, the Ancient of days, to violate his command to sin against him. We really can't comprehend the gravity of it, but it's not how many sins you commit, but it's who you sin against. James said, if you keep the whole law and stumble in one point, you've become a transgressor of the law of God, and it's a serious thing. And so it's vital that people see Jesus. They hear Jesus and they believe. So I only Hope they have. [01:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think all of these questions and answers we've gone through today really rely on our belief in Scripture and what the Bible says itself. So I think a lot of people question why they should believe the Bible, why the Bible doesn't have any more new New Testaments in today's time. Why is there nobody else writing? [01:19:22] Speaker B: Well, in the first century, the authors of the text described it as the faith, once and for all, delivered to the Saints. And so it's once and for all. It's handed over, it's completed. So if you have a new Third Testament, let's say Book of Mormon, whatever it might be, it will inevitably echo what's already there, making it unnecessary, or it will contradict what's already there, making it dangerous. And you see that anytime somebody tells you they've got a word from God that's authoritative Scripture, then it's going to either echo or contradict. And I've not seen it. I've not read anything that didn't do one of those two things. The validity of Scripture, our belief in Scripture. It goes back in the Old Testament. There was a canon. There was a sensible way that those Jewish leaders put the Old Testament canon together in the New Testament. We didn't just pull that out of thin air. There was a reason certain books made the cut and certain ones didn't. So you've got it had to be apostolic in origin. So it either had to be by an apostle or by his emissary. So there were times when Paul dictated the letter, someone else wrote it down, but Paul was in charge of. Had to be common between all of those New Testament churches. So if there was one or two books that maybe Ephesus had, but they weren't in anybody else's collection, those were not admitted into the canon. So it had to be apostolic. It had to be common among the churches. It had to not contradict previously revealed truth. And so if there were letters that were in everybody else's canon and claimed to be apostolic in origin but contradicted truth, there were some false letters that were floating around, and they would contradict truth. So you had gnostic epistles. Those didn't make the canon. So what we have today, as early as 150 A.D. was we found a list of scriptures, New Testament scriptures, that's either exactly or very close to what we have in our New Testament today. And that's the faith once and for all, delivered to the saints. [01:21:49] Speaker A: Right. So unfortunately, we are running out of time. I think we're going to have to do a second addition, of course, because I have so many more questions about the Bible, heaven, afterlife, revelations, and then we get more into some Gen Z and cultural things that are pressing right now. But I think a fun way to end this would be some Gen Z rapid fire. Let's solve some. Some Gen Z debates. Early bird or night owl? [01:22:14] Speaker B: Early bird. [01:22:15] Speaker A: Dog or cats? [01:22:16] Speaker B: Dog. [01:22:17] Speaker A: Podcaster. Music. [01:22:20] Speaker B: That's 50. 50. [01:22:21] Speaker A: That's crazy that that's 50. 50. I would have guessed Music. Texting or calling? [01:22:26] Speaker B: Texting. [01:22:27] Speaker A: Group chats. Muted or unmuted? [01:22:29] Speaker B: I hate group chats. I feel like it's the judgment of God. If I end up in a group chat, there's going to be people seeing this that really are disappointed. [01:22:36] Speaker A: They're going to kick you out of the group chat. [01:22:37] Speaker B: Wonder why I never comment. It's like I feel like you. You've done a really rude thing to add me to a group chat. [01:22:43] Speaker A: I agree. Planning or being spontaneous? [01:22:46] Speaker B: Planning. [01:22:46] Speaker A: Road trip or flight? [01:22:48] Speaker B: Flight. [01:22:48] Speaker A: Hymns or modern worship? [01:22:50] Speaker B: Hymns. [01:22:51] Speaker A: Is Die Hard a Christmas movie. [01:22:53] Speaker B: It wasn't until I saw it, I'd never thought of it. We watched it two or three years ago and it was like, oh, that's pretty cool. So I think so. [01:23:01] Speaker A: Okay. Socks. Sock. Shoe. Sock. Shoe or sock? Sock. Shoe. Shoe. [01:23:07] Speaker B: I didn't wear socks today, but I'm gonna typically wear socks. [01:23:10] Speaker A: Middle brownie piece or edge? [01:23:13] Speaker B: Depends on the mood. [01:23:15] Speaker A: It's clearly the edge. Introvert or extrovert? [01:23:18] Speaker B: I'm an introvert. [01:23:20] Speaker A: Invisibility or super strength? [01:23:23] Speaker B: Super strength. [01:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. That's all I have for you today. [01:23:26] Speaker B: Well, you did a great job. [01:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you so much for being on Code Red. Maybe I should think we did build it. [01:23:32] Speaker B: We did build it. So I didn't call it the Zach Terry Podcast. [01:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:36] Speaker B: I built it so that it could live on after me. So Maximum Life, Code Red is built. [01:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah. You want to see more of me? Go watch Ladylike. Thank you. Bye.