How One Unplanned Pregnancy Sparked a Movement with Amy Ford

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. Amy Ford? [00:00:31] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Welcome to the Code Red studio. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:00:34] Speaker A: First time we've ever met. We've been hearing all about your ministry. So we were at Crisis Pregnancy Centers gala in Jacksonville this past week. Our church has championed the cause as much as we can, but it's usually with crisis pregnancy centers. And your work, Embrace Grace is kind of a corollary to that. You're ministering to the mothers when they come in. Tell me about Embrace Grace and what you guys do. [00:01:08] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we're like the extension of Embrace Grace through the church. So I'm sorry, from the pregnancy center to the church. So a lot of times, you know, these moms will go to a pregnancy center. They get that first help that they need, the sonogram, they get spoken life into, they get resources, things like that. And so, and a lot of times, sometimes even hearing the gospel, a lot of pregnancy centers will share the gospel. Then it's like, okay, what happens now? You know, we really. She really needs to get connected into a church home. We want her raising her kids in the church. Well, Embrace Grace is a great bridge from the center to the church. And so we have a 12 week curriculum the churches use all over the nation. That is a small group program that churches can host. And then the pregnancy centers refer their girls to the local churches that have Embrace grace groups. It's 12 weeks, they hear the gospel, it's discipleship, they get a baby shower as part of the experience. That's [00:02:07] Speaker A: so [00:02:07] Speaker B: cool. And then we hope by the end of 12 weeks it's not just like, that was a cool class that I went to, but that they're raising their kids in the church. They've gotten the courage to try even the weekend service and. Cause there's a lot of, you know, I've invited a lot of pregnant women to church and I see a lot of pregnant women when I'm out and about. I don't know if God just like aligns, you know, my steps in that way, but I just see them and when I invite them, usually there's a little bit of like a hesitation. They think they're like, you know, I'm not married, I'm pregnant. I've heard girls say, like, I thought you were going to tell me I was going to go to hell. I thought you were going to tell me how a horrible person I am. When they try, when they did get the courage to try church, which is sad to think that that's what they think church is like. They think that church is about behavior. Some probably are. Instead of a heart transformation. And some probably are. You're right. [00:03:05] Speaker A: And I would assume those are not good fits for Embrace Grace. [00:03:09] Speaker B: They kind of weed themselves out. They usually are like, yeah, that's not a good fit. And we're like, good. I'm glad. That saves us a lot of time. You know, if a girl's br. Brave enough to try church, I want it to be a good experience for her because they already kind of have their preconceived notions about what they think it is. I've had a girl one time who was like, I think I need to just stop smoking cigarettes. Like, can you give me one more week? And I'll try to go next week? And it's like, just come now. [00:03:35] Speaker A: She wanted to quit cigarettes before she went to [00:03:37] Speaker B: church. She thought she needed to get her life cleaned up before she could try church. And I think a lot of moms think that. And so even with all of our leaders, we train them on the first class. Like, just share your own story. We all have had messy situations where God took our messes and turned into a miracle. So just share your own story at the first group, because when they do, it's all of a sudden the mom's like their walls that they kind of came in. Maybe they're coming for the free baby shower, but they're gonna just really, you know, endure a verbal beating, you know, of how they've messed up or screwed up their life. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Strangely, some. Some. Not just women, but some people kind of almost feel like they need that in a strange way, that they're kind of drawn to being told how horrible they are so that it just. It confirms something for them. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Maybe the church girls. You know, we have some girls that are church girls and get pregnant, and then some girls that have never stepped into the baby. You [00:04:37] Speaker A: mean that can happen to a [00:04:38] Speaker B: Christian, right? Yes. I know some pastors don't think it can. That doesn't happen in our church, but it does. [00:04:44] Speaker A: My observation has been it's more likely to happen to a believer. I don't know why. That's just. I was a youth pastor for many years, and I would see these young ladies that would come and say, all of my friends have been sexually active for months or years, and they never got pregnant. I messed up one time. Why did that happen? And if that story was one time, at least a dozen. I've heard that a lot too. So I don't know if that's a God thing. I don't know what it is, but it's just anecdotal observation that it's a reality. So this is crisis pregnancies that you're targeting. So we're not just talking about young couple in the community that's married and they have a baby. They were planning to have a baby. That's not your target group. You're shooting for crisis pregnancies who may have even been abortion minded. And they've decided to stick with it. And beyond just saying we want to rescue the baby, you're giving a way for the church to minister to the mother, to the family. Is that accurate? [00:05:56] Speaker B: To disciple, to walk with them, to love on them. And yeah, I just, and I just believe, you know, so many people look at politics as what's going to move the needle on this issue, which politics are important. But I really think in order to just even make abortion unthinkable, where someone's like, why would I need to have an abortion when there's so many people that are offering to walk with me and to help me, there's a pregnancy center, there's churches, and there's baby showers. And like, I, I'm not gonna have to walk through this alone. Why would I feel like I needed to do that? That is what we hope to accomplish through the church. There's over 300,000 churches in America. Like, if we all were doing something in the movement, I believe we really can make this issue not an issue anymore. And so that's what we're trying to do because even, you know, we have this like plug and play template, curriculum program, digital curriculum, you just press play, all of that. But the what the holy. It's the Holy Spirit. Like what the Holy Spirit does through these groups, through these moms, it's just totally amazing. And we hope that it's transformative, that it's not just something they go to. We hope that it's either planting seeds of future change, that even if they don't make the decision to follow Jesus. Well, they just got 12 lessons about the gospel and maybe it'll happen later, but thank God that we got to sow this into them during that time. I [00:07:26] Speaker A: love the name. So one of my favorite conversations, you know, I'm the senior pastor at a church of 1200 and when they come to my office, it's normally pretty bad. Not by design. They just wait to the last. I'm the last hope, you know, and something horrible has happened. You know, a marriage is falling apart or somebody's pregnant or, you know, someone's had an abortion. I've had that conversation. And one of my favorite. It's almost like Christmas for me when I get to tell somebody, this is, if the gospel doesn't work now, what good is it? Like, this is what we specialize in is these kind of cases where it seems like it's too far gone. Sin is conquered. No, this is when Jesus. This is his favorite things. He steps into these situations and they always look at me like, are you serious? Because I didn't expect this from the church and I was putting off. I should have came to y' all first, you know, and in our. In our congregation, I'm going to brag on them for a little bit. We've got. The church was planted the year Lincoln was inaugurated. So it's been around a long time. 1859, Civil War broke out. They survived. A lot of stories there, I could tell. But it was a downtown typical First Baptist church that grew. We relocated, tripled in size, but it still got the heart of a country church. So you've got. It's multi generational, but you've got little old ladies that would just love to be a mother to a young lady. We've got a ministry to strippers over in Jacksonville and call them the church ladies. And they make casseroles that they deliver with Hadassah's Hope. They deliver them to these strippers every weekend. So you've got these little ladies with their buns walking into. With casseroles into clubs. [00:09:33] Speaker B: That's so cool. [00:09:34] Speaker A: And I'm like, they let y' all in? They're like, yeah, it's disarming. Who's not gonna let a little lady feed somebody? You know? And they'll go and they'll just love on these girls and, you know, eventually they'll show up at church or they'll, you know, make a step toward Christ. [00:09:49] Speaker B: That's so awesome. [00:09:50] Speaker A: But I love that about the church. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker A: And, you know, I know my church, but I'm sure most churches have those people that their heart is to embrace the person in need and share grace with them, you know, so it's a perfect track for that to run on because there's a lot of things that we have the heart to do it. But I'll be honest with you, I don't always know what to say or how to respond when something like that happens. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:21] Speaker A: Why is this your heart and your calling? [00:10:23] Speaker B: It's tied to my own story. I had an unplanned pregnancy when I was 19, and I grew up in church, had a great family, but didn't have a relationship with God. And I found out I was pregnant. So scared. I thought my life, you know, you think of the worst case scenarios. My life was over. My dreams were over. I was going to be homeless, my parents were going to kick me out. I was the oldest of four kids in a very strict family. And I just thought that this is it, I'm dead. Did [00:10:50] Speaker A: you think about abortion? [00:10:51] Speaker B: Yes. And so I. Even though I grew up knowing abortion was wrong, it just. I just, you know, you have the thought of, like, well, it could be a quick fix. You know, it's a. It's almost like you think about it like a magic button, and you don't really think about, where does the baby go? Or whatever. It's just like, it just vanishes. And so the father of the baby felt the same way. We went to the abortion clinic, paid for the abortion, and I ended up hyperventilating and passing out in the abortion room when they were describing to me how they were going to do it. And so I came back out in the waiting room or. Well, when I. After I passed out, one of the nurses, she was fanning me, she was trying to give me a drink of water. And she said, you're too emotionally distraught to make this decision today. You can come back another day, but today you're not getting an abortion. And so, which is kind of crazy because I've had a lot of friends that have gone through the heartbreak of abortion, and they're like, they did not care that I was crying. You know, I don't know whatever happened that one day I had a nurse that cared. So I went back out in the waiting room, told the father of the baby, we're still pregnant. We just kind of decided in that moment, okay, if we're going to be homeless, if our life is over. You know, all those things you think about in that crisis moment. We knew we had each other, we wanted to get married someday, just not necessarily in the order that it ended up happening. And we got married when I was 16 weeks pregnant. And we had asked the past that had led my husband to the Lord years before if he would marry us. And he said, no, I'm sorry because you sinned. I will not bless this marriage. And we were like, wow, we are such horrible people. We can't even [00:12:17] Speaker A: be married and [00:12:18] Speaker B: blessed trying to do the right thing. And then, you know, after that, we found someone else who would marry us, and it was fine, but you definitely felt like a scarlet letter, you know, experience and try to go back to Church. But it's like the elephant in the room. People don't know whether to say congratulations or I'm sorry. So. So they don't say anything and then you just feel alone in a crowd of people. So we just kind of stopped going for a while and we had a son that we just can't imagine not being here. And he actually today as the day of this recording is his birthday. I said he was 29. I told him happy birthday and apparently he's 28. I got it, I gotta go back. I text him happy birthday this morning and he's like, I'm 28. I'm like, okay. Well so 28 years ago I gave birth to the most amazing boy ever. And you know, he has always had a heart for evangeline Evangelism. He grew up in school of like having these. He started a ministry called Ignite and where I live in Texas, in Arlington, Texas. And it was student led. Tons of kids would come, hundreds of kids would come to these parks and he would share the gospel, somebody would lead worship and he would even get sponsors for food, pizza, burgers, even youth pastors from the city would come to be like what are our kids coming to? And he just has always how he would fall asleep with the Bible next to his head. Like you know, he'd read. And then he went on to Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, majored in theology and then got his ministry or got his MBA and now he actually works in the mov in the pro life movement. He has an or a company that he owns called Ford Creative where they make marketing strategies and social media strategies, Google search engine optimization, all the things for pro life organizations, for pregnancy centers. So he. And he's [00:14:00] Speaker A: traveling, needs to meet. [00:14:01] Speaker B: Okay, good. And he even today or when I flew here yesterday, he was flying out at the same, we were at the airport at the same time because he was going to go speak somewhere and share his story. Because he, he goes around and shares his story. He's married. He married somebody in 2020 and she has, they have a little girl and they have one on the way. So I'm a grandma. I'm a honey. That's my grandma name. And they live in our neighborhood. Like I would have missed out on so much. It's like a dream. It's a dream. They are so amazing. And just that he's made on the world too. Like I'm just super proud of him. And you know we. He's just amazing. And so when he was 2, that pastor that would have Marry us. Actually called my husband out of the blue and asked for forgiveness. He said he felt like it was his worst mistake in pastoring history that he had ever made. And my husband was like, yes, of course I forgive you. And then when my son was 16, that pastor that wouldn't marry us asked me to come out. Like, at this point, he had moved from the Dallas Fort Worth area to Austin, Texas, so it was like three hours. So he had asked me to come out to Austin to speak at his church, and he was very open with his congregation about what he had done years before. He said he had a religious spirit, a Pharisee heart. This is what I did to this family, but this is, like, what God taught me about meaning him about grace. And he has his whole perspective inside, but he was very open with them. So I came and I spoke. And then afterwards, he asked me to come back on the platform, and he asked my son Jess to come on the platform. And in front of everyone, he said, amy, years ago, I asked your husband for forgiveness because. But I never really asked you, will you forgive me? And I was like, yes, of course. You know, I forgave you a long time ago. Well, then he looked at my son, 16, in front of the whole church, and he said, will you forgive me for planting seeds of rejection in your heart before you were ever even born? And while you're in your mother's womb, I rejected you. Will you forgive me? And my son, 16, in front of the whole church, says, I forgive you. And it was such a powerful moment in that room. Like, you could feel church wounds being lifted. The fact that the pastor would humble himself in that way was healing, I think, for a lot of people. And he healing for my son, Jess, because just three years before, when he was 13, I had my first book coming out. I was going to be on Focus on the Family, James Robinson, and all this stuff. Embrace Grace was sort of starting to take off. And I hadn't told him the story, and he hadn't figured out, like, the calculation of our wedding and his. His birthday or our anniversary. And his birthday is not nine months. And, you know, at this point, we've got. We have four kids total, still married to my baby daddy. And he. So at this point, though, I think when he was 13, we only had three kids. And so we took him to the Cheesecake Factory, just him, which he knew something was up. And I had all my friends praying because I needed to tell him the story. And I was so worried that he was going to take it as rejection or, you know, I wasn't sure. So I had all my friends praying. I poured my heart out to him. And, you know, after I was done, and I was like, you know, we were just dumb kids. We didn't know that you weren't planned by us, but you were planned by God. And he knew that we needed you and you're such a blessing to our family and all this stuff. And so then I'm like, okay, tell me how you feel. And he just kind of did the typical 8th grade boy response. Like, you know, he didn't really have much to say, whatever, I don't know. But I did find out later over time, which is kind of what when he speaks, he shares about that there was about six months where he did struggle with his thoughts. And, you know, the enemy will use anything to a lie that will twist. But if he would get in trouble for something, it kind of would go into like shame thoughts of like, you know, you weren't even supposed to be, you know, your parents didn't want you or whatever. He just would think things. It would go into a negative, you know. And so one day in youth group, they had asked a few of the kids if they would speak. They picked a few and they said, will you speak on five minutes on how you're an overcomer? And you know, he was praying about. He didn't know. He's kind of live a sheltered life, you know, up to this point. And so he came in my room and he was like, I think I heard God speak to me. And he said I was an overcomer before I was ever even born and that Satan had a plan to take me out. But I here and I want to use my story and I want people to help people understand that their life has value no matter how they were conceived, no matter how they became into the world. And that's been his heart ever since. He's very passionate about identity and value and all of that. And so [00:18:21] Speaker A: I should have [00:18:21] Speaker B: told [00:18:22] Speaker A: you this before we started. You can't make me cry, okay? If I start crying, we're done. Okay? [00:18:27] Speaker B: Okay. Gotcha. [00:18:29] Speaker A: You've gotten really close a couple of times, so be careful. I heard somebody say this week that a lot of times, wherever the enemy tempts you, that's usually the key to your purpose. I've never thought about that. So with Paul, it was legalism in his bc, and he warred against legalism the rest of his life. And with your son, it sounds like that's kind of what was going on. He had a purpose, and the enemy knew his purpose before he did, and he was attacking him in that area. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Totally. [00:19:04] Speaker A: You know, so I was taught, and I don't know that anybody ever. Yeah, I think they did. I think I was taught as a pastor to do what your pastor did. If a couple came to me that didn't have their act together, then you don't do the wedding. You make them get their act together, and then you do the wedding. And I remember one of the first times that situation happened, it was similar to your situation, and the little couple came in and was able to lead her to the Lord, baptized her, and it was just like. And he was a believer. And I was just like, I can't not help them toward. If God's, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:53] Speaker A: If I don't believe, I wouldn't want anybody to hear me saying that. Because you got pregnant, you got to marry the guy. [00:20:00] Speaker B: No. [00:20:00] Speaker A: You know, because it's not always God's will. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:02] Speaker A: But. But if it is, and if the two are trying to pursue righteousness, helping them seems to be the right thing. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:10] Speaker A: You know, totally. And so when that happened, it was like, I can't justify telling them no if they're trying to [00:20:17] Speaker B: do the right thing. Yeah. [00:20:18] Speaker A: You know, I think we're supposed to help people do the right thing, but, [00:20:22] Speaker B: yeah, we've come a long way. I know. I was talking to a pastor not too long ago. In fact, I just had him on my podcast show. But he was talking about how he. They had launched Embrace Grace at their church. It was a very small town in Louisiana. And he made an announcement. They're doing Embrace Grace. And after they were done, someone came into his office, and they were like, did you see? So and so just got up and left. Like, when you made this announcement, like, kind of abruptly, something's going on. And he said. It kind of just all came to him of like, why? And he was saying, years ago, this woman's daughter had an unplanned pregnant, and she was a teen. And he said that all of us men were sitting around the boardroom table, and we were like, okay, how are we gonna deal with this issue? You know, she's pregnant. And he said, we kind of were like, we just do what we always do. Like, she needs to be kicked out of youth group, and maybe she can come back after she has the baby, you know, doing all these different things. And he said, I remember when we were talking about it, I felt in my heart this doesn't feel right. But it's what we always did. This is what we always did. This is what we do. This is how it works. And he said it wasn't until Embrace Grace came along of, like, the realization, oh, there could be another way on this. And so he ended up bringing that woman in and her daughter asking for forgiveness, and there was healing there and all of that. But I think that for a lot of. Of churches, especially maybe in smaller towns or older pastors, that there has been a way. Sometimes it's even asking women to confess their sin in front of the church, which I don't. I've never really understood that. It's like, why is it that sin? Why is it not. The pastor ate too much at the buffet. Why don't you confess that too? Also, where's baby dad? Like, why doesn't he have to do, you know, all of this, too? And it's just like, why are we highlighting this sin? Because her sin is evident for the world when other people's sins are private, you know, and you can't see. And so when it's really actually contributing to the abortion rate. The abortion rate is the same inside the church as it is outside. So women either don't show back up to church because who wants to do that, or they're going to have an abortion so that they don't have to do that. [00:22:41] Speaker A: There's a sense in which. I don't know what to call it. I'm sure there's a name for this, but there's a ministerial way of operating that is just inhuman sometimes. And I've witnessed it in recent days. Julie and I went to a church and it was like, I told a couple, my son is a Christian. He loves Jesus. He's. He's in a great church, but he's pursuing a career in secular music, which is just. That's his. What he felt called to do. I mean, he literally felt God called him to do that is to be a Christian in a country music scene. And I was just. I didn't like, set that up or like, what are your kids doing? Well, one's moved to Nashville, and he's chasing the dream of music. And they're like, well, we'll pray for him. And I'm like, okay, thanks. But we're really proud of him. You know, he's kind of, you know, pastor's kids don't always stay in church. And so he loves Jesus. He's happy, he's growing, he's in a great church. Like, we're not disappointed in him. We're actually very proud of who he's turned out to be, you know, But I think there's just a. It's almost like we're so like the heavenly minded, no earthly good kind of sense. We, we divorce truth from reality sometimes. And I think that's why when those people do show up in the office and they can see that, oh no, we deal with this all the time. Sin is what we. That's where we operate, you know, that's where the gospel steps in. And if it doesn't work here, I'd get out of the business, you know, if we can't help you who, you know, you're a sinner, you're trying to get things straight. If we can't help you, why are we even here? You know? And so when they see that, it's so not what they expected. And that's a shame. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance and it's his goodness that draws us to his side. It's love that really makes people. It's his love that makes people want to change, you know, and want to not stop doing, repent and all, you know? [00:25:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And when we preach the truth Almost like every 10 sermons, I want to have like a public service announcement that says like, if I stand up and I'm preaching like I had a staff member one time come to me and she'd had an abortion. And so she was kind of confessing it, letting me know that this had happened. It was more like she said, I never heard a sermon on it. Nobody had ever told me that it was wrong and it seemed to be the right thing to do. And I went and did it. And I've carried these scars for all these years emotionally and spiritually. And so there's a sense in which there's people out in the congregation who they've not been tempted, they've not been down that road. And so we preach truth knowing that we had one situation where a young man was struggling with some gender issues and we were trying to shepherd him through that and help mom and dad and all that kind of stuff. But I had preached on that issue and was pretty straightforward. Nobody could be confused about my position on it, that it was wrong and that God made him a man. He's to embrace that. But when I preach on it, he can feel like I'm targeting him and that I'm going to receive him differently than I would. Does that make sense? Yeah. And it's like, no, I'm not in that moment, I'm not talking to you. I've got a message to you. Yeah. [00:26:38] Speaker B: He might think he's the only one in the church, and there's probably more [00:26:41] Speaker A: people. Oh, every family in there has got somebody in their family that struggled with sexual sin or something. So I'm trying to prevent a tragedy. And so I try not to pull punches when I'm talking about right and wrong and moral issues. But at the same time, I want to be just as aggressive with grace and [00:27:04] Speaker B: with truth. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And that young man we sat down and talked about, he was revamping his car and all this stuff. It's like he said, I didn't know that I could just talk to you. And it was just like, normal. And it's like, I'm so sorry that you felt that way, but you're bigger than one sin or one struggle, you know, and we can help you with that. We're here for you. We're in your corner. But I don't look at you as if you were marked by that one thing, that one decision you made. [00:27:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that there's a real opportunity in the church to talk about abortion. I know a lot of pastors shy away from it because they are worried about the topic. You know, we hear, oh, it's political, we can't talk about it. But, you know, it was a. It was a biblical issue before it was ever a political issue. But I think that there's an opportunity for freedom to happen, because I know for sure with abortion, a lot of women think they're the only one in the church that's had, when actually it's one in three women have an unexpected pregnancy, and the abortion rate's the same inside the church as it is outside. So there are definitely. Or one in four. I'm sorry. So there are 25% of the churches, most likely have [00:28:22] Speaker A: been there, [00:28:23] Speaker B: been there, have done that, but they think they're the only one. And I remember one time I was at a women's conference and I was being interviewed by the pastor's wife and talking about embrace grace and all that. And so it was over. So it was an arena of 10,000 women. It was a out in Fort Worth, Texas, and at the very end, I just really felt. She's like, thank you, Amy, so much for sharing about embrace race and all that. And at the very end, I said, can you give me one more minute? I said, I just kind of felt a stirring. And, you know, I said, There's 10,000 women in this room. That means possibly 2,500 of you have experienced an abortion. And I just want you to know that God loves you, that he wants to heal your heart and that maybe even at this conference weekend, you know, he wants to start that process of healing your heart. But, you know, Revelation 12:11 says we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. Share your story, tell you can bring it out into the light and that you're not disqualified for ministry. You are qualified. You can use your story to help other people. In fact, we have women that have led Embrace grace groups that have had abortions and they want to be the person they wish they had years ago when they made that decision. Who did they need in their life? And they end up being the most amazing, amazing warriors in the. In the kingdom for, for this topic. But anyways, I'd said all that. It was over. I went back to my booth at the next break. We were inundated with women and a lot of them had like mascara, you know, some didn't say anything, but they were kind of milling around like you kind of got a vibe that some it. It touched them in some way. But I'll never forget there were three women that came up to me and they were all wearing. It was a big girls conference weekend and they were all wearing matching T shirts and they were sisters and they were doing a fun. They got T shirts made and all that. But they were literally holding up the one in the middle, the girl in the middle, and she was bawling and they brought her to me and they were like, she's very touched by what you said. She wanted to talk to you. And she's like trying to get her composure. And I will never forget what she said. She looked at me when she finally got her tears together and all that. She said, you mean to tell me that God can use me? And it was like no one had told her that before in connection of highlighting what this thing, you know. And to think that 25% of our church could possibly feel that way. There was another and I keep forgetting what the statistic of but there was a really high number Care net and Lifeway did some sort of percentage of women, they did a survey of women that had abortions that believe that when their pastor talks about forgiveness that it doesn't apply to them. And it was something like over 50%. And can you imagine being a believer or a Christian and a Christian and believing that God has forgiven all your sins except for that one, that's a heavy weight to carry. And there is an opportunity, like free people. Free people. If we can help set these women. And men. Men are carrying it too, especially if they help pay for the abortion or whatever. Heard so many stories about that. If we can help set these people free, there could be a revival in our churches. You never know that they're just being held back by that internally, thinking they're the only one, that no one else is talking. And our pastors aren't really talking about the issue. So they don't know. Or even girls that get pregnant. They don't know that the church is a safe place to go to. They don't know they can talk to their pastor, just like you mentioned with this guy. They don't know what a pregnancy center is because the pastor's never talked about it. They're just kind of feeling isolated, alone, like they're the only ones. When we have this opportunity to be a refuge and a sanctuary for people that are broken and hurting, which is. [00:32:12] Speaker A: That's true a lot of people. You know, for the pastors that are watching, it kind of. This is a selfish way to look at it, but it's reality. There's so many people asking questions about these issues because it's what they're dealing with. Regardless of how they vote or any of those things, you know, your life is your life, and whatever curve ball you're throwing and we're all throwing them, you have to answer those questions and play the hand you're dealt and [00:32:46] Speaker B: navigate through that. And do we want them to go to Google to figure out what to do? Do we want them to go to secular places to figure out what they do? We want them to be able to come to the church, [00:32:55] Speaker A: and we want it. You know, most pastors want to be relevant to the conversations that are taking place. And it's like if I found here, and I don't know if this is nationwide or if this is just a local issue here. You can't get away with not addressing cultural issues. Now, 2020 did something in this community with all the stuff we dealt with. Well, you know, the strange thing about this area, this is one of the most conservative parts of Florida. It's really South Georgia, but culturally, but it was so conservative. But the pastors, not so much. But they never addressed anything beyond we ought to love God and pray and things we all agree on. So in 2020, Ahmaud Arbery happened the next county over, George Floyd happened, Covid Trump. All this stuff's happening. We were facing abortion amendments in Florida right around that time, and everybody had to kind of take a side on some of these issues. And when it happened 1. And a lot of people in the pews started saying, okay, pastor sees the world differently than I do. And they realigned. And so conservative churches began to really boom during that time. If they would address the issues. You know, there's people who are looking at every city. It's not just Florida and Dallas and Texas. Every city has people who are looking for biblical answers to the real issues of the world, the real [00:34:30] Speaker B: issues that they're going through or their family members are going through. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Right. And if you'll just take a stab at it, you know, try to help them see what scripture says and do it with truth and love. And it's an amazing. Again, a selfish way to look at it, but it's an amazing tool to grow the church. You know, people avoid. Blows my mind. They don't know what they're missing. You know, if they have biblical convictions about these things and if they would only address it, the floodgates. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Well, even more than, like, conservative issues or political issues, it's like people are struggling with anxiety. People are struggling with mental health or struggling. You know, they. A lot of people have these struggles of, like, I went to a church where they kind of hit a peak, and then they sort of went back down. There kind of was a dramatic thing that happened at my church, but there. There was a day when they had freedom from depression classes, freedom from anxiety. They would have classes about gender questions, like. And people that don't even go to the church would go to these classes that they would offer. And. Because it's like, where else can you get free help, you know, in this. How awesome that a church could be that. I read a quote one time that said, if your church closed its doors tomorrow, would your community weep? And that's one great way to look at our church. Like, are we offering things to truly bring people to Jesus in our community? Going even outside of the walls, bringing these moms in, the dads in discipleship, loving on them, or are we just in our bubble? You know, sometimes they look at. Sometimes the church is like, you know, you're feeding all these little birds, are in a nest, and you feed them and you feed them and you feed them and you feed them, and they're getting fat and happy, and it's like, go fly. Go do. You weren't ready for the nest. Yeah, go do the things that God's called you to do. All those talents and gifts inside of you, it helps with getting a good job and things like that. But it's to do the good works that he's called us to do. So what is that? What brings you joy? What makes you pound your fist on the table and say, someone's gotta do something about this. You're really passionate about that. Maybe it's you, maybe God stirring your heart to you or like you were saying before of like our. Maybe it's tied to our story or the thing that we've gone through that hurt or pain, whatever that God, that God wants us to use, that even if we're in secular vocations, we can be a light in that and that God may call us to do that. And I [00:37:14] Speaker A: would even say there's lots [00:37:15] Speaker B: of opportunity [00:37:15] Speaker A: we need, thank God for people who are called in ministry that start organizations like you have and pastors and all that. But, you know, we need football coaches, we need school teachers that love Jesus and take a stand on things. We need bankers and real estate agents and all this. We don't just need a bunch of preachers, you know, And I think if people could see that it's not just people who have a call to full time vocational service or whatever we call it these days. Ministry is for everybody, you know, and God has a calling, an anointing and a job for everybody to do. And it doesn't mean you quit your career to do it. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:06] Speaker A: You know, [00:38:06] Speaker B: there's just so much opportunity out there. The world desperately needs hope. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Totally. [00:38:12] Speaker B: There's so many. [00:38:14] Speaker A: I've been doing this for over 30 years, ministry, and you pick up on things that are not, like they don't teach you in seminary. Right. That are signs of health in a church. So like for example, if people mill around and chit chat after service, that's usually a sign that it's, you know, it's a good church. They're healthy, they're enjoying each other, they love each other. Right. So one of the things that I've noticed in 30 years is they know how to do baby showers. Well, like if a church, when I came here, they were like rock stars of baby showers. And you would go, when Julie and I had our first child, the church we were in then, I think we got three or four showers. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Wow. [00:38:57] Speaker A: And literally one room of our home was full of stuff that we got for the baby. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Might be that southern hospitality, [00:39:04] Speaker A: there was a lot of it. But this church, First Baptist Fernandina, was that way. And I don't think I've ever thought about that as a ministry, the way that you use it. Has that always been a part of Embrace Grace or why did that become a part of it? [00:39:23] Speaker B: Well, when it first started, so I was at a women's conference. A lot of this is tied to women's conferences. A different women's conference. And. Well, actually, it was the same women's conference just years before. But I had a vision. I've never had a vision before. I've never had a vision since. But I had a vision. It was Carrie Jobe Carnes was leading worship. Christine Caine was speaking. And it was like snapshots were right in front of my face, like photographs. And it was like I could reach out and touch it. And the snapshots were of me having an unplanned pregnancy 10 years before. So this is 10 years after I had my first. But then the snapshots changed to me throwing baby showers. And that year all my friends. So it's 10 years later now. So now my friends are married and having that were my age, you know, and having babies, you know, the right way. And I love throwing baby showers. I am. I am good at it. I got a lot of cute decor. You know, I'm one of those that I can throw a good baby shower. So the snapshots change to that. And it was so weird. It goes from me kind of being Sad and pregnant 10 years before to now me. And that year I had thrown 13 baby showers for my girlfriends. It was a baby boom with all my friends. So as I was. I didn't know what that was. I never experienced anything like it. As I was leading, I ran into the group's pastor and I told her what happened. And she was like, why don't you just start a small group for women with unexpected pregnancies. And the baby shower can be the hook to get them in the door. And I never led anything. I was just barely going to church. So [00:40:47] Speaker A: this is the whole vision. [00:40:48] Speaker B: This is the whole vision. And so still. But not thinking nonprofit, like, that wasn't even a thought. [00:40:55] Speaker A: And for those that don't know, it's a massive ministry. [00:40:58] Speaker B: It's a massive ministry. And so it was just a group at my church. And I'd never let anything. There was something terrifying about what she said, but also something really exciting that stirred in my heart of like, yeah. And even then, it's like that vision, like, I'm married now. I think I have a couple kids now. I'm not thinking about that season in my life anymore. Life has Moved on, you know. But that's weird that it changed that. So we had. We prayed about a name, Embrace Grace. We just really felt like that would be the name of our group, of our little small group. We put the word out, told people about it, if any, if anybody. I didn't even know what a pregnancy center was. My church had never talked about it. So I had. We started Embrace Grace's group had no idea what a pregnancy center. So it was just word of mouth. If anybody knows somebody's pregnant, we're gonna start this group. We look for curriculum. Couldn't really. We're like, there's no such thing as single and pregnant curriculum. But we ended up finding a book called Embrace Grace, which is kind of crazy. It was an older book by Liz Curtis Higgs. It wasn't about being pregnant, but it was about the Bible, forgiveness, repentance. Like, it was like, we could use this. And it was simple and even had letters to Liz. But Liz, I've been in jail. How can God have grace for me? And three girls came. One wore a coat in August in Texas because she was terrified of anyone seeing her at church pregnant. They wouldn't make eye contact. They kind of had this hopelessness of like they have no idea. One was still abortion minded. Her mom had begged her. Her mom didn't want her to have abortions. Her mom had begged her to come to this group one time and just see. And it was amazing over 12 weeks how they had transformed. They were like, by the end of, they had all three surrendered their life to the Lord. They had a confidence in them. They still were nervous, but they had a confidence in them. They had a sparkle in their eye, all of that. And the baby shower was, I think for all of them, a big draw to it. And we always put the baby shower about three quarters of the way through to try to like, really we want them to experience the classes and stuff. But the baby shower is something that is huge. And I love to like we do we. I remember a long time ago, someone had said, came up to me one time years ago, older lady, she was like, you know, I'm really struggling with the baby shower part. You know, maybe they deserve gently use things and not brand new things because of, you know, they kind of got themselves in this situation. And God immediately brought to mind the prodigal son. And like when you think about the prodigal son had spent all his dad's money. He had nothing left. He was eating the leftovers of the pigs. And he had the thought you know, maybe I could go back home and eat the leftovers of the servants. That's a little better than the pigs leftovers. And my favorite part of the story is it says, and while he was a long way off, the father ran to him. Like, when he turned back home, the father ran to him and he had a servant's put a robe on his back and a ring on his finger. And he's like, son, you were lost, and now you're found. And they said, let's kill the fatted calf. They didn't say the leftovers from yesterday that you, you know, they said, let's kill the fatted calf. Let's have a party. And then there was the brother that was like, well, that's not fair. You know, I've been your perfect kid, and you've, you know, you're gonna throw him a party. And he was like, son, you have everything you need in me, so come and let's celebrate that your brother was lost and now he's found. And so sometimes as a church, we can be like the brother and miss out on this opportunity because it doesn't really go on to say in the story of, like, did the brother throw the party, you know, or did he leave? I don't know. But we have this opportunity to be. To partner with heaven, to throw a party. And a lot of these moms are still a long way off, but they've turned. They're coming to church. They've turned toward their [00:44:33] Speaker A: heavenly father every inch. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Yes. And every life is worth celebrating. Every life is a miracle. A baby is not a sin. A baby is a miracle. And every life, no matter how it got here, should be celebrated. And so we want to be a part of that. But even this morning, we were at a pastor's event, and one of the leaders had said, had told a story about one of the moms, and the moms had brought baby dad to the baby shower that the church threw. And he was, like, pagan and into not good stuff. And he was so blown away of the kindness of all of these people that did not know him that he ended up surrendering his life to the Lord. And that baby shower was a big part of it. We've had some even do it as an outreach event. So maybe the baby dad will come. If the baby dad's involved or their parents, maybe if the parents, they have parents involved, they can invite a few people. But we've had some showers, literally share the gospel and invite people to make a decision for God at the baby shower. For unwed moms. How amazing is that? [00:45:35] Speaker A: That's awesome. We had. I found that the parents are just as confused and grabbing at straws as the little girl or the guy is. We had. I had a co worker, I was staff evangelist at a church, and a co worker's son had gotten a girl pregnant. And he was kind of having one of those moments of just kind of burying his heart. And it was almost like he was confessing his sin. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Yeah, like they take it personal, like they [00:46:07] Speaker A: failed in some way. The dad was almost confessing that he had sinned somehow. And so after it was over with, we gathered around him, we were praying for him and words that came to mind. And when the Bible says children are a reward and blessed is he whose quiver is full of them. And you can't make me cry now. I said his name was Dwight. I said Dwight. I said that verse wasn't qualified. He didn't say, as long as it happens this way, you can celebrate that child. That could be one of the most therapeutic things you do for yourself and for your daughter or son. You can celebrate that child that was not expected, you know, and it didn't come through the perfect circumstances. But you can celebrate that baby as a reward from heaven [00:46:57] Speaker B: for sure. And [00:46:58] Speaker A: it deserves that, [00:46:59] Speaker B: for sure. We had. One of my friends, had a daughter that was really rebelling, going the wrong way, making terrible choices in life. And she was on her knees praying all the time, God, please get a hold of her. Please do something. Please get. Send people in her way, you know, bring her back home, all this stuff. And then she got pregnant. And my friend was like. I was like, God, I told you to get ahold of her. I told you to. Like, now she's pregnant. And God said, I answered your prayer. And she's like, that's not what I meant. But this baby totally changed this mom's life. She ended up going through embrace grace, totally started following after God's heart. Married amazing man who ended up adopting the baby. Has been working at a church for years. Like this baby. I've always said this, so many times that. And even including in my own life, that sometimes when God wants to woo his son or his daughter back to his heart, he might just give him a baby to do it. He might just give them the sweetest face that they've ever laid eyes on so that maybe they can get a tiny glimpse of how much God must love them. [00:48:12] Speaker A: It changes you. [00:48:13] Speaker B: It changes you. And it's not easy, especially being a single mom. It's Hard, but it is worth it. Choosing life. That baby is a gift. No matter how the baby was conceived, the baby is a miracle. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Okay, this is gonna be the viral moment, okay, Because I don't have a clue how to do a baby shower. So I want you to give me some pro tips if, you know, speaking to the audience. The ladies throw the baby showers at our church. But what makes a great baby shower. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Well, if it's in context of unplanned pregnancy and. Or just, you know, I believe what makes it even better is being able to offer discipleship. Like making. Say, we want to bless you and we want to love you, but we also want you to be a part of our family, and we want you to be a part of the church family. I think that's huge. Just sometimes just throwing the baby shower is amazing. But, like, hey, we want to disciple you too. And there's men here that want to disciple the dads. There's women here that want to disciple the moms. But we've seen. It's really cool. These baby showers are actually so amazing. A lot of times, small groups within the church will adopt a mom, so they'll know her name, her age, what she's having, when she's due. And their small group will be praying for her for, like, that whole semester. And then they get to come to the shower and meet her and bless her with all these gifts. But I remember one time there was a mom who had missed a lot of classes, and we try to say, hey, can you at least code 70%? You know, if you can, but, you know, there's bed rest. Some girls get sick and things like that with pregnancy. But a mom had missed a lot, and the leaders kind of struggled. Do we still have her part of the shower? Like, she missed a lot. And. But we are called Embrace Grace. So we're like, yeah, but you can't hurt. You know, have the shower for her, too. So. But this mom came, and there was a table round, just full of gifts. And in the theme that she had said was. I don't remember if it was safari or something, you know, cowboy. But in the theme that she loved, it was all wrapped. It had her baby's name monogrammed on, you know, personalized women, [00:50:15] Speaker A: had stitched [00:50:15] Speaker B: blankets. Yeah, [00:50:16] Speaker A: you gotta have the monogram. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Totally. She was so blown away. And so she said she saw the table, this mom, and she immediately put her hand over her face, and she said, I don't deserve like. Or first she said, who am I sharing a table with? And they're like, no, this is yours. This whole table is yours. And she just had tears and she kept saying, I don't deserve this. I don't. Just kept saying it over and over and over again. And you know, the thing is, none of us deserve his grace and his mercy, but yet he lavishes it on us. And it's like she got a real time picture of what that looks like. And I think that's what the fun part is. It's just celebrating life. We've seen even people adopt a mom for the baby shower and they'll meet her and then they end up being a part of their life. Like going to their kids birthday parties when they turn one. Or I was at a wedding the other day where an Embrace Grace mom and a dad got married not the other day, but a couple years ago. And I was at the reception, I was sitting at a table of people I don't know, you know, so I'm trying to get to know them. And I was talking to one of another couple that was sitting next to me. How do you know this couple? And they said, oh, we adopted her for the Embrace Grace baby shower at my church. And they and their daughter, their kid was like three now, so it's three years before then. They've stayed connected all the time and was invited to the wedding. And so to make it so that it's not just a we're going to bless you, which is awesome. We want to do life with you. And whether it's through the church and the pastoral, you know, we have to remember we are the church. Like there's the church building, of course, and the structure, organizational structure of the church, but also we are the church. And so walking with it, we want to walk with you. Like we want to help you through the hard times. We want to celebrate you with the happy times. And we're in this with you. I feel like that's the Pro Whole Life movement. The Pro Whole Life movement is the church. [00:52:01] Speaker A: How did you build this? So how did it go from one group to massive ministry now? [00:52:08] Speaker B: You know, I say I feel like all the time I have no idea what I'm doing. Googling God, you know, I don't know, but it was pretty cool. When we had started that first group, random people would call us. Like one was a pastor that his niece had gone through Embrace Grace. And he's like, this is so cool. Totally changed your life. How can I start it at my church? And we're like, we kind of started writing our own, but still Just thinking our own church. So we'd send him. We're like, here's Word documents. Good luck. And then someone else, it was someone else that went to our church, but they got. Their husband was transferred to work to Oklahoma. And they're like, well, I'm gonna go find a church there and I'm gonna start it there. And we're like, okay, here's Word documents. You know, good luck. It just sort of organically started happening. Do [00:52:50] Speaker A: you have a background in that? [00:52:50] Speaker B: No, I never went to college. I [00:52:54] Speaker A: had an [00:52:55] Speaker B: unplanned pregnancy. No. And so I was like, oh, it got by. 2008 was the first group at my church by 2012. So four years later, we got up to 10 churches without trying, without. It just happened [00:53:08] Speaker A: organically. [00:53:09] Speaker B: And then that was when it was like, oh, I think God wants us to help people. Help people and help the church, be the church. And so we ordered the 501C3 paperwork and all of a sudden the weight and the heaviness of this is a big deal. There's bylaws and boards and you can go to jail if you don't, you know, do it right. And it was a lot. Half the words I don't even recognize. I don't know what they mean. Now I will say my husband is a very smart businessman. He helps a ton. But he kept saying, amy, you're totally supposed to do this. And Even with the IRS paperwork, I think it was at the time, 2012, it was around $800,000,000 for the application fee. And my husband was like, amy, we'll pay for it. You're supposed to do this. And I said, this. Is. All of a sudden the weight of this is like, I can't do this because it sounds fun or like a cool thing to do. I need God to make it very evident that he wants me to do this. And at least starting the non profit part, I'll still serve at my church. I know he's calling me into that, you know, but the non profit part I need. I don't want to get five years down the road and think, did I go too fast? Did I go ahead and got. Because I do that sometimes. And so I said, I think what I want is I want the money to fall from the sky. I want it to come from somewhere else, just fall from the sky. And that will be my sign that he wants me to do this nonprofit part because this is a big deal. So I called my co founder, told her what I was feeling. We prayed about it. She was in agreement. Well, the next day, she went to the church for. It was a women's conference prayer weekend. So they were praying every Saturday morning leading up to our next women's conference. She was at this conference. This random lady came up to her. She's like, hi, I know this is weird. I know you don't know me, but she said, I saw you. Are you going on a missions trip? And Selena's like, no, I'm not going on a mission trip. Sorry. And she said, well, I saw you and I heard the word mission. Does that word mission mean something to you? And one of the things in the 501C3 paperwork is you have to do your mission statement and your vision statement. And it's really hard to put your whole dream in one sentence, like, articulating each word, you know? So we were working on that, and she said, we're working on our mission statement. Have you heard of embrace grace? And the lady is like, no, never heard of it. So Selena told her, and the lady said, well, I saw you, and I heard the Lord clearly say, fund your mission. How much do you need? And Selena's like, well, it's like 800 something dollars, you know, to start the nonprofit. Literally pulled the checkbook out of her purse and wrote it out to embrace grace. The whole amount she put on the memo line the scripture that says, how blessed are the feet that share the good news of the gospel. Gospel. And that was our go. And so that was 2012. And then ever since then, it was just that we hit the ground running. Just try every opportunity. Things like this, podcasts, you know, back then, it was more radio shows. And. [00:55:44] Speaker A: Does she know what happened? [00:55:46] Speaker B: Who? Yes, there is a part two to that. Like, so back then, we didn't have our CRM customer management systems. You know, we were just. We were doing this out of our garage. You know, we didn't know we were doing. So we didn't have that. I didn't have her info, but I ran. We had had a copy of her check, and it was a couple years ago. I'd randomly come across that check, and I was like, I wonder if this lady knows the significance of her donation. Her donation was our go. Our. Yes, our. It sparked a movement because there's over 1200 churches around the nation that are doing this in all 50 states. And so I looked. She. She was kind of older. I only had her address. Didn't have phone number or anything on there. And so I looked her up on Facebook, and she was on Facebook, but it didn't look like she was very active. So I private messaged her, and I was like, hey, I don't know if you remember, years ago, 2012, you gave this donation. Like, I would love to tell you more about what that was. So it was a couple months before she responded. And so she got back to me, and she. When she got back to me, it happened to be the day before that church where all this happened at next baby shower the day before. And so she had written me back. She was like, I do remember that day. She had sold something, and she had asked God, like, who do you want me to bless? And that was. The Lord told her, you know, there was a whole thing to that. Well, so when I said, I would love to, like, tell you the other side of this, but I'd love to show it to you. Are you available tomorrow night that you could come? And she's like, yes. So she came and she saw it, and there was so many moms. And that this church, it happened to be a church where it's a big church, and they have several campuses, so they'll have individual groups at each of the campuses. But for the baby shower, they all come together for one event. So it was like 30 or 40 moms. Like, it was a lot paper wrapping paper flying everywhere. It was weeping hugs. Beautiful. And I told her, you know, she's like. She said she had sold something and all. She told me the backstory, and I was like. I told her, this has sparked a movement. Like, this is happening all over the nation. And she just was so overwhelmed. And she just said, you know, I had had a prophetic word one time. She'd never been able to have kids of her own. She had one adopted son. And she said, I. I've never been able to have kids of my own. And one time I had a prophetic word that someone said that I would be the mother to many. And sometimes I got angry at God of, like, why would you give me that word when I can't biologically have children? And she said, now she's just, you know, tears. She said, now I know what that means. And I'm like, yeah, that this. This. Your obedience to God sparked a movement. We never know what's on the other side of our obedience. Our yes to God, you know, and. And that's pretty exciting to think about. Like, it. And I love to the scripture, like, it says that the way God receives our love is through our obedience. Like, that's how he knows we love us, and we just never know could even be the simplest or littlest things that on the other side of it is big lives changed, you know, and it was such a sweet moment, I think even a healing moment for her. She's such an amazing person. And that. How cool that God let her see. [00:58:59] Speaker A: That's so cool. And imagine in heaven. [00:59:02] Speaker B: I know, right? Totally. [00:59:07] Speaker A: So our church is a generous church. We've got several families that have been. This is a resort community. We're an island, you know, so people. It's expensive to live here. Most of them have either retired, worked hard their whole life, saved up their money, move here, or they've done quite well in whatever business they're in. And so we've kind of become a magnet church for a lot of ministries. So every week I hear about another ministry that's in our church, and I'm thinking that the lady who represents Embrace Grace in our church. I don't remember her name either. She came up to me. I don't think we had met. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Well, she's new to the area. She [00:59:55] Speaker A: started [00:59:55] Speaker B: it in Delaware at her church and has done it for years. Then she just moved here, and she just got it started. [01:00:02] Speaker A: If I recall, we were doing our annual gala for Maximum Life, our nonprofit, and we were talking about this stuff is not just to make a big deal out of what I do. This is your tool. If there's a ministry that you're a part of and you want to amplify that out for whatever reason, we know how to build an audit, so introduce us to people. And she reached out after that and said, well, I'm a part of this ministry, and we may be able to get somebody to come talk about it. And I don't remember what it was that brought you to the area, but she was like, the CEO's gonna be here. You know, we can. We might could work this out, you know, and so here we are, you know, but it's still not. That is so new to our congregation, and it's new to me. I love the vision and the concept. It makes perfect sense. But what do we do? Like, how do. What's our next steps? Do we just wait on centers to send us moms? Is there a way to advertise it? [01:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So. And she actually got some ideas this morning because we did have a pastor's pastors and leaders breakfast or lunch today. So she got some ideas from other leaders. But pregnancy centers are the best way if they can refer their clients. So she's working on developing relationships with local pregnancy centers, and they all have our love boxes, which are these gifts that these moms get if they're unexpectedly pregnant and has the information for a local church that's doing an Embrace Grace. So that's a huge one. Well, one of the new ways that we're finding it super interesting is that people are finding a lot of moms for these groups through Facebook Buy sell trade pages. And so they'll do a post that says free baby shower and message me for info. Then they message and then they'll say, okay, here's the requirements of being able to get the free baby shower. We're looking for someone that's not married, unexpectedly expecting. It's at a church. So you have to be okay with that. That it's at a church. It's gonna be on Wednesday nights or whatever, you know, whatever night of the week or Sunday morning, whatever. Here's. Are you interested? Do you fit this? And if they're like, yeah, they should have to weed through because some are like, no, I'm married or whatever. They weed through and then they come to the top. But they. Several people in this Jacksonville area leaders have said they have gotten quite a bit of moms through where they're just kind of maybe looking on the buy sell trade pages for like a used high chair or something. Would never step foot a church on their own, but yet they got this invitation. And so that has been a huge way. So we gave her those tips. And also word of mouth, anytime the pastor talks about it from the platform, maybe plays one of our videos and saying, hey, anybody that you know that may be unexpectedly pregnant, we would love for you to invite them to our church so that we can love on them and walk with them. We've seen high school counselors depending on the state, sometimes they're more strict than others. I would think that Florida would be okay with it. But sometimes high school counselors have our love boxes give them to the moms or at least know about Embrace Grace and can refer OB GYNs sometimes have them. It's just all word of mouth and through pregnancy center referrals. [01:03:30] Speaker A: How do you are the videos on your website? [01:03:33] Speaker B: On YouTube, there's. If you go to Embrace Grace, we have a YouTube channel with lots of great 1 minute, 3 minute, 5 minute testimonies to play and just saying, you know, and even you could promote like there's gonna be a future baby shower that's coming. We would love to have all of you involved in that and that to keep that in mind. And. But anytime there can be a pat you know, even you being able to say this next weekend, I just did a podcast, you know, with her, and I would love to get this activated. And I know she. The leader is trying. She's working on it. She's just. She's new to the area, so she's trying to develop those relationships. [01:04:07] Speaker A: Well, I've never seen a church that's more open to helping. You know, if it's a. If it's a solid godly ministry, then they're really, really interested. And we try not to be selfish about that. I [01:04:19] Speaker B: love [01:04:19] Speaker A: that. So if you're back in the area and you want to do it like a Wednesday night's always just standing invitation. If somebody's a missionary or a Christian leader and they want to just kind of share what they're doing, then come back and share with our people. But, yeah, our team's here. We'll get behind it and figure out a way to kind of start getting the word out. And the pregnancy centers owe us some favors, so we should be able to get some referrals through that pretty easy. But I'm totally just bragging on grace. You understand that. But they've bought ultrasound machines that, you know, [01:05:00] Speaker B: we [01:05:00] Speaker A: would just stand up and say, I don't know what those things cost now. They're [01:05:03] Speaker B: expensive. [01:05:04] Speaker A: They're pretty expensive, but somebody would just write a check, Love it. Buy ultrasound machine. And, you know, that's happened numerous times. And so I think they could refer some people to us [01:05:15] Speaker B: totally. And it's like, what a great church to refer to. A very generous and amazing church. [01:05:21] Speaker A: It's the best one I've ever been a part of. I love that. Fortunate to be a member, much less a leader of that church. But. Well, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for what you've done, and I'm impressed, I really am, that what God's done through you and taking that story that was perceived at the time as a very negative thing and turned it into something. Beauty for ashes. Right? And just a. Just a great tearjerker for me. [01:05:49] Speaker B: Well, thank you for your yes, too. Like, sometimes we do have resistance with pastors with starting groups, and, you know, maybe they think it's political, or maybe they think it was just not, or, you know, they don't want to for whatever reason. But I appreciate your yes to that. We're like, yeah, let's. [01:06:07] Speaker A: It's always surprised me what works that I didn't think would work. So I've given up trying to discern what's a good idea. We did grief share and divorce recovery. And we started both of those ministries. And I thought, that's a bad idea. I don't want to put a sign out there that says divorce recovery, grief share. It just kind of sets a bad tone for what we're doing. I think we've had more people join the church, get saved through that than about anything we've done. Like, every week, Julie and I will meet a new lady or man who went through one of those ministries. And it's like, okay, maybe I don't have all the good ideas. Open it up. Let other people share. But God's blessed it. I think he's been good to us through that. And as long as I was, I think I was preaching. Yeah, what had to be, I was on stage and I looked out, and we have a pretty strong homeless ministry here. And so I saw a lady that was homeless, and I saw a man who had given a lot of money to the church and probably had two or three homes. And Holy Spirit just brought it to mind that if you quit ministering to her, I'm not going to keep sending you him. You know, the reason I can trust you with him is because you've ministered to her. And so I think this just opportunity for us to work together. And it's God's business at the end of the day. And so if he's called it to be, then he will provide for it. [01:07:41] Speaker B: He will. [01:07:42] Speaker A: Thank you for coming in today. It means a lot to us. [01:07:44] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.