The Church Needs Faithful Pastors

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Doctor Stephen Rummage, welcome to the Code Red studio. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Hey, Zach, I'm glad to be with you today. Really thankful. [00:00:35] Speaker B: So I've known of you for many years from back in your Bell Shoals days. There were conferences that you guys would have that I would show up for and kind of admire what God was doing at a distance. And now you've kind of come full circle as far as went out of state for a little while. We ended up back in Florida. And you came back to Florida as our executive director. How's that going so far? [00:01:00] Speaker A: Well, it's good. Going really well. And we're coming up on two years. And so I had. We served about 10 years in the Tampa area there at Belle Scholes Church. And that was just an awesome experience, both pastoring that church where we just saw God do such incredible things and then also just learning about what God is doing in Florida. For us coming to Florida, I was right at 4 years old when I became a pastor of Belle Scholes. And I wondered what was it going to be like to come to a state where everything was new to me. I'm from North Carolina, grew up there, and really all of my ministry was there until I was 40. And so I came to Florida. I just wondered, how do you fit in? And here's what I found out. Florida churches in the Florida Baptist Convention and Florida pastors just know how to embrace one another and to welcome in new people. I'm sure you found that as well. And so, man, we loved the time of ministry here in Florida. We were really surprised when the Lord called us out to Oklahoma for a few years. We had a great time there and then equally surprised when the Lord brought us back here. So the work is really going well. We're having a great time. I say we because my wife Michelle and I are traveling all over this state. We're in different churches just about every weekend ministering to pastors and pastors wives and just really enjoying the ministry that we're doing. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Well, we've talked some off record over Mexican food and probably one of the things that blessed me as much as anything you've said and you've said a lot that's encouraged and blessed me. But it meant a lot to me when you said you missed the pastorate. [00:02:46] Speaker A: I do. I miss it all the time now. I preach more now, I think, than I did as a pastor. But to be able to be in community where you're seeing people grow in their relationship with Christ and where you're preaching to the same people each week and seeing new, new believers come into the church and then grow in their relationship with the Lord. And to have that type of continuity and just to be somebody's pastor, I miss that a lot. I told a friend of mine, I said, you know, when you're the guest speaker, it's great, but little children don't come up to the guest preacher after it's over and give them a picture that they drew of them. They just don't do that. They do that for pastors. And, you know, middle school boys don't come up and shake your hand as a guest speaker and say, thank you for that message. And by the way, if a middle school boy, thanks for the message, the only reason he did it is because he liked it. He's not doing it to be polite. The Holy Ghost was moving. Amen. So, you know, you miss those things. But at the same time, I'm thankful to be able to minister to a lot of pastors, a lot of. And for Michelle to be able to minister to a lot of pastors, wives, just to be a part of what we're doing together. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Well, I think that it's special one that you're coming out of the pastorate into a denominational role. And we'll explain a little bit about what it is that you do, because most of our people. That's the strangest thing. And it's a little, little bit. Maybe it hurts my feelings a little bit that a lot more people watch this than listen to my sermons. If a quarter of the people would listen to those sermons, I would be much happier. But we've got a wide audience for this podcast and probably the average episode is somewhere around 250,000 viewers. That's great. So it's a really good. We've promoted it and it's done well. But with that, I'm assuming that a lot of those people are like the people in our church who did not grow up in a Baptist context, and they think of you as sort of a cardinal or something like that. So we're going to clarify what that means. But it is nice to see people move into offices like yours who came out of offices like mine. Not because necessarily there's a trajectory there that I have no desire to ever leave the pastorate. But I prefer. I think our convention is healthier when pastors are leading the entities. It just seems to me there was a shift along the way where. And you know how much I love some of our theologians. No shade on them at all. But there is a different approach to it when entities are led more by academics. And of course, you are a theological heavyweight, but you're a pastor. And so that, for me, as a pastor, I find it comforting and encouraging that, one, you've got that history, and two, you kind of miss it. You kind of enjoyed that role. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah, and I don't just kind of miss it. I mean, I miss it every day. I. You know, the role that I'm in is a role of service that the Lord has opened up for us to be involved in and called us to. And I'm thankful to God for that. But I just think that if you're called to preach and called to a pastor, to be a pastor, I just think it's one of the greatest blessings God can ever give you in your life and to be able to fulfill that calling. So I miss it greatly. But I think it's. I think what you said is true. We want guys in roles like the one I'm in who love the pastor or love the pastorate and don't see a role of leadership within the convention or as being the pinnacle. Instead, it's a necessary place of service that somebody needs to be in. We want to be faithful in it. But we need guys who have a heart for the pastorate in those roles. I think that's really important. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Tell me about your first staff role. [00:06:58] Speaker A: So I've only ever been a pastor, [00:07:02] Speaker B: so lead pastor, senior pastor. [00:07:05] Speaker A: I won't call my first role lead pastor because I was the only one. I was the only pastor, but I was the preacher. In fact, most of my people in my church didn't call me pastor. They called me preacher. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Where was this at? [00:07:18] Speaker A: This was in eastern North Carolina at a place called Cedar Rock First Baptist Church. I don't know why they called it Cedar Rock First Baptist Church. There wasn't another church for 15 miles around, but it was called Cedar Rock First Baptist Church. And Michelle and I went there. I was 23 years old and she was 22 years old, and I was about halfway through my seminary experience. It was a rural church in eastern North Carolina. On a good day, if all the grandchildren were in town, we had maybe 57 or. But, man, it was a great, great place to serve the Lord and to see God work and just to learn to learn how to preach week by week and to learn how to be the pastor. And so that was a great, great experience for me. I praise the Lord for it. [00:08:10] Speaker B: I thank God for those churches in our convention that they're going to have to take a chance on Somebody from time to time, either the guy that says, you know, I'm nearing retirement, I'm going to give the rest of my life to this congregation, you know, or the up and comer who needs a pulpit and he needs to make a lot of mistakes. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker B: And needs somebody to show me some grace. [00:08:34] Speaker A: That's right. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. You know, I think I thought before, if I made the mistakes now that I made in my first church, that [00:08:42] Speaker A: they were so gracious, it would probably [00:08:44] Speaker B: cost me my job. And it's not that they were like moral mistakes. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Right. You just didn't. It just. You didn't know any better. [00:08:50] Speaker B: You don't know any better. [00:08:51] Speaker A: I heard Jim Henry. You know, Jim Henry was a longtime pastor at First Baptist Orlando. He said something one time I'll never get. He said, no matter what size it is to you, your first church is a mega church. That's right. And that's because you don't know which grab hold of. And you're just trying to figure out how to minister to those people. And, you know, I really. I really felt a dependency on the Lord in a significant way. I always want to feel that same dependency. But man, in that first role, you just don't know what to do. [00:09:27] Speaker B: And there's an urgency to it. You know, you get up every Sunday as if the Lord may come this evening. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:34] Speaker B: And there's just something special about that. And I think often, I think it was Vance Havner that said it originally, but he said, when you get in a rut and you feel like you're kind of not what you ought to be as a man of God. God, go back and preach some of your early sermons. And there's something to that, because it's not that they were great sermons, but I go back and I look at those old notes and think, oh, I see what was stirring in my heart then. That's what needs to be. These people need that just as much as those in that small church in Kentucky needed it. [00:10:08] Speaker A: A friend of mine went back and preached homecoming at the first church that he had. So it was a service where people coming back, you know, and he got there and he got up, he said, first thing I want to say is I apologize. He said, I apologize for all the sermons I preached when I was first. You know, I was just starting out. I apologize for the sermons. He said. Then I stopped for a moment and I said, well, but, you know, come to think of it, you probably were getting your money's worth. Now I'm really excited because coming up in the fall, we're going to go back for a homecoming service at the first church that we serve together. [00:10:52] Speaker B: So good. [00:10:52] Speaker A: We're excited about that. They've got a pastor there and I've been really encouraged. It's still rural situation, what we would call a smaller church, but they've got a pastor there who has stayed. He's a young man, but he stayed there for a good number of years. And the Lord has just really blessed his ministry there. So I'm excited about going back. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Well, I remember hearing a tape back in the Tape Days from John Maxwell doing the same thing. And he went, he had Lancaster Wesleyan Church or whatever it was, the movement he was a part of, and they had him back. And it went from like 50 to 300, which was record breaking for them. And hearing him speak to those people, there was something special about it because a lot of them won't be there now. I know it's changed and transitioned, but I remember that made an impact on me that I could hear that early church in his life had that impact on him just through his emotion of it. We were talking about the convention, which we just wrapped up. So can I tell you about my drama? [00:12:05] Speaker A: I want to hear what happened. [00:12:06] Speaker B: So we get there and I love certain aspects of going to the annual meeting. I was thrilled this time because we had a full slate of messengers and we've never done that in our entire ministry. So I was very thankful that our church was supportive and wanted to be a part of it. Thankful. It was close. It was here in Orlando, but we stayed a few miles away, probably five miles away from the center. It comes time, I'm trying to remember, did the four of us go together or was it just two of us? So I've got myself, Julie, my assistant and her husband and we're riding over to the convention center. We start back and I dropped them off and then I go park half a mile away. Got in a bus, rode back, but I couldn't remember where the bus dropped me off. So I thought we've got to walk half a mile back to my car. And it's a little bit of rain or it was hot or something. I said, well, I've tried a Waymo out on the West Coast. They haven't done Waymo. So I thought that might be kind of fun. And the Waymo is Waymo is like a Tesla. You get in it, it drives you where you want to go. But I like it better than Uber because you can pick your own music. You don't have to tip. So the bottom line, if it says it's $30, it's $30. So I like the Waymo. So get in that Waymo. And I then remember I don't know exactly where my car's parked. So I take a guess at it. I couldn't remember if it was 8,898 international or 9,989. So I guessed the first one. Well, it's taking us there. It's not correct. Put it into the second one. It's taking us there, but it goes right past where it's supposed to turn. It just keeps going. And so it's got an option on it that you can pull over. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:06] Speaker B: So I said, pull over, let us out. We get out, close the doors, start walking toward our car. It doesn't move. People start blowing their horns, and it's not going to do them any good. [00:14:19] Speaker A: There's nobody in that car. [00:14:20] Speaker B: And that Waymo is sitting there. And the next thing I know, Orlando traffic is backed up. And so I'm confident. The evening news that night had something about a Baptist pastor shutting down downtown Orlando. [00:14:37] Speaker A: So what wound up happening? [00:14:38] Speaker B: Did you. So we. I have no idea that we may still be sitting there. As far as I know. We got back to our car, but we had a great experience. I loved hearing, man, you know what, One of my favorite sermons from the convention. [00:14:52] Speaker A: What was that? [00:14:52] Speaker B: Cliff Lee. [00:14:53] Speaker A: I heard that sermon. That was an awesome sermon. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Wasn't that interesting? It was something special about it. [00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah. It was very powerful. [00:14:59] Speaker B: You could tell it wasn't a sugar stick. He wrote it for that moment, bringing up his wife, Mrs. Lee, our brother from Miami. Those prayers were from the heart. And I. And, you know, a lot of times you go to these meetings and you kind of, you know, they know the jokes to tell. They know that was a special moment. [00:15:26] Speaker A: It really was. No, I agree. I was in that session. And when they prayed over. When Cliff's wife prayed over the pastor's wives. And then I think Eric Cummings, pastored down in Miami area, prayed over the pastors, I think 50 and younger. And then another pastor, retired brother, prayed for. The pastor's 50 and over. [00:15:50] Speaker B: I got to say that's my one complaint now. [00:15:52] Speaker A: See, I was going to bring that up. [00:15:54] Speaker B: I don't know how much control you had over that. [00:15:57] Speaker A: I had no control over it, you [00:15:59] Speaker B: know, but I'm 50. [00:16:01] Speaker A: I'm 57. [00:16:02] Speaker B: So, you know when they say 50 and under, I had to stand up, okay. And I just. I just bowed up And I wasn't going to stand up again for 50 and over. I said, you know, I've done. I've done stood up and got my prayer one time. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Well, and also, you know, there was something said for that 50 and up prayer were like, for the guys 50 and over, you know, you're in the last. [00:16:25] Speaker B: You're barely up. [00:16:26] Speaker A: It's like any day now. So I told Eric afterward, I said, look, I said that prayer, you prayed for the 50 and under, that was for me. You were praying for me. I won't let you in. I'm appropriating that prayer for myself. But it was all just a sweet and beautiful time. But I agree, that was a special time. [00:16:45] Speaker B: So crossover, how did it turn out? [00:16:48] Speaker A: Man, it was an incredible, incredible thing. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Explain what that is. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Crossover is an evangelistic effort that takes place the week before and especially on the Saturday and Sunday before the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention. It's been going on for many years, and it happens in whatever the host city is each year. So this year it was Crossover Orlando. And we. We wanted to do everything we could in partnership with the North American Mission Board to just partner with churches and to help churches reach people with the gospel of Jesus Christ. So all kinds of things went on during that week as the Florida Baptist Convention. We sponsored sports tournaments for high school boys and girls and soccer and flag football and basketball and volleyball. And then we had track events. And so those things were going on a ministry, along with, in partnership with Bill Glass, behind the walls ministry at a prison there in the Orlando area, where we went in on Saturday and shared the gospel. And then churches, First Baptist Church, Kissimmee, had an incredible. Just all kinds of ministries that they were doing, including sports, but also, you know, other things, providing care and showing love for their community. And that was just happening all over the city. So our goal was to have 1,000 churches involved, to have 10,000 gospel conversations, and to see 1,000 people get saved. Now, we had over 500 churches involved, so we didn't reach the thousand mark. That gives us something to shoot for in the days to come. But with over 500, that was many, many more churches than we've seen involved in crossover in the last several years. So we praise God for that. We saw over 19,000 gospel conversations in the course of that week, which is just. And I had the opportunity to be a part of that and just see what was going on with people sharing the gospel. And then we saw 1,077 people. Trust Jesus as savior. So praise The Lord for that. [00:19:01] Speaker B: Go ahead. What people don't sometimes understand, you know, that number. Amazing number of people converted. The number of gospel conversations, though, that's happening with Southern Baptists, with young people sometimes that have never shared their faith before. [00:19:20] Speaker A: That's right. [00:19:20] Speaker B: And so the ancillary or ongoing benefits from getting out and hitting the hedges. Old school, a lot of door to door. [00:19:31] Speaker A: We had a lot of seminary students that were doing door to door evangelism as part of crossover. [00:19:36] Speaker B: One of my pastor friends who's in Orlando, he said, my door got knocked on about three times, people sharing the gospel. And so I'm like, okay, wow, they're [00:19:45] Speaker A: really doing it, you know. [00:19:46] Speaker B: And he said, one of the young men, I forget Midwestern or what school he was from, but he came, knocked on his door, and he was a little bit nervous. Josh, my friend, goes and opens the door and he says, sir, I just want to, you know, have a conversation with you about Jesus Christ or something. And Josh says, by all means, you can, but, you know, I'm a Baptist pastor here in the area. I'll be at the convention this week and I'll go with you to the next house or something like that. But the guy says, man, I'm relieved. He says, you're the first one that showed up that had his clothes on. So can you imagine? [00:20:20] Speaker A: Well, you run into all kinds of things. I mean, imagine what they learned just [00:20:25] Speaker B: through those gospel conversations. You know, it's really good. We had a great. We had one of our own elected president. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Really excited about that brother, Willie Rice, pastor there, Calvary Clearwater, on the other side of the state from where we are right now. What a great brother he is, and great preacher. Great preacher of the word of God and a friend to pastors and strong, strong, strong in evangelism. I know just you and I would have the same types of stories about Willie, just what an encourager he is to us. But I remember when I was serv at Belle Scholes and of course, about an hour away from where his church is, and we just wanted to find out some things we could do to be more effective in reaching our community for Christ. And we went and met with Willie, just sat down, had lunch with him, and he just has a heart and a passion for the gospel. And God has used that church and is using that church in great ways to bring people to Christ. [00:21:25] Speaker B: He is. And I don't know. I know Calvary's reputation, but, man, I heard Willie preach probably a couple of years ago at the convention at the Florida convention. And I thought I'd follow that guy in the war. And he just seemed like he had that spirit, just a great communicator. I'll say this for his benefit. He was here on the program. We supported him. But I texted you soon after, and I shared my appreciation for you publicly supporting Willie. And because Josh is a great guy, too. Josh was overqualified for the position as well. But it meant a lot to me that you came out in favor. You just said some nice things about Willie. And I said to you, I know that must have been a difficult decision because there's always anything you do can cause controversy. And you answered back. You said it wasn't difficult at all, because I know him and he's a friend, and I want him to hear that. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Well, he is. And when I was in Oklahoma, he preached in my church. Did you really? Oh, yeah. So I just have high, high regard for him in every way, and I'm thankful he's going to be our president. [00:22:35] Speaker B: So tell me a little bit about. Let's give some context. You're not a cardinal. What is your role in this convention? How is it different than a denomination or an orthodox church? Tell us a little bit about the context of Southern Baptist and what your role in that is. [00:22:55] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for asking that question. Because a lot of people don't understand or misunderstand, and that includes, certainly people who are not part of the Baptist world. But even sometimes within our Baptist churches and among pastors, there's not a full understanding. So I serve. We have over 2700 churches or congregations in Florida. And I serve those Baptist churches. I serve their pastors. I'm there to help them, to encourage them and to minister to them. None of our pastors work for me. I work for them. I serve them. And so it really is, you know, the authority and the leadership in Baptist life flows from the local church to anything else. Everything else is downstream at the local church. And that includes the Florida Baptist Convention. At the Southern Baptist Convention level, it includes the executive committee and all of our seminaries and our mission boards. All of us serve, serve the local church and serve the leaders and the pastors of those churches. And so that's the beginning place. [00:24:11] Speaker B: It's not the pyramid of the pope at the top. [00:24:15] Speaker A: It's reinverted. And, you know, somebody said something to me that really helped me. This is true in Baptist life in general, but it's true in God's kingdom. What looks like sometimes advancement is really just moving deeper and deeper and deeper. Into servanthood. When I first was pastoring that first church, the Lord trusted me enough to give me about 56 people to serve. You know, over the years as a pastor, the Lord gave me, you know, by my last pastor, about 8,000 people that I was serving as their pastor. Now the Lord's given me a whole lot of churches and a whole lot of pastors and a whole lot of Baptists to serve. And so you're just moving deeper and deeper and deeper into servanthood as you serve in the Lord's kingdom. And so that's the way I look at it. So I serve our churches and what our role is. We say we come right beside our churches to help our churches in their mission of reaching people with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And as part of that, I have opportunities, opportunity to provide leadership for ministries that we do together, such as our disaster relief ministry that just ministers to so many people in times of crisis and natural catastrophe. Right. Florida, last year, we got through the hurricane season without a major storm. But most years we have at least one major hurricane that our doctor People are responding to. And so the Lord gives me opportunity to be a part of that. The Lord gives me opportunity to provide leadership for what we do on our campus ministries through our Baptist collegiate ministries and other things that we do just to come together as Baptists to reach people with the gospel. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Well, it's not, you know, if you've been kind enough on a number of occasions and will tonight stand in the pulpit and bring the word. But if we were in business session, you don't vote. [00:26:17] Speaker A: I don't vote. [00:26:19] Speaker B: If you're not a member of that particular church, there's no authority in the role over. You have to truly be a leader. And it's the same for us as pastors. I say it all the time. All I can tell you is what I believe the Word teaches and what I think we ought to do. You've got to decide if you want to follow or not. And that's just between you and the good Lord. But it's a little bit like that, between your role and the role of the church. Churches. You can cast vision. You can lead, but you don't command. And really, there's nobody in the. The only commander we have is Jesus. [00:26:52] Speaker A: That's right. [00:26:53] Speaker B: You know, but it's a beautiful, autonomous existence as a church. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Right. All of our churches cooperate on their own. And when I was a pastor, I used to, you know, I did a luncheon at least three or four times a year where I would talk to people about if they were interested in becoming part of our church. And I would tell about what it meant because we had, just like your church, we had people who would come to our church who had very little Baptist background at all. And that's great. We want to reach people from all kinds of places. And so I would talk to them. I would say, hey, this church owns its own property, makes its own decisions, and voluntarily cooperates with our state convention and with the Southern Baptist Convention. We do that because we believe in the mission and man the mission. We've got so much more to accomplish that. I'm thankful that Baptist churches are joining together to make a difference. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Well, you said earlier, I think you said you were 23 when you took your first church. [00:27:58] Speaker A: 23. [00:27:59] Speaker B: So 1859, a young man named James Kirk Mendenhall was 23 years old. He and his wife and three kids, one on the way, moved down from Princeton, New Jersey. He just graduated from seminary to plant the First Baptist Church of Fernandina. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Is that right? [00:28:20] Speaker B: And so that tells you a little bit about the heritage here. Can you imagine at that age? [00:28:26] Speaker A: No. [00:28:27] Speaker B: You know, we thought Covid was bad, right? There's something big that the next year, Abraham Lincoln was elected and we were thrust into a civil war. And so I've thought much in recent days about that young man in the Union calvary moving in and so many of his people fleeing, some of them going into service. Can you imagine pastoring through a civil war? [00:28:52] Speaker A: I couldn't imagine it. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Something beautiful happened and I'm trying to capture because we have to guess a lot of this history. So the best we understand the story, the Union troops that were stationed at Fort Clinch, which was not a very important fort, but it was a port city and that's close by, that's at the north end of our island. So those Union troops that were stationed there, well, they had to go to church. And they would worship in the various churches around town. There was only mainline mostly, and then now we have a Baptist church. So they would come in and worship at the Baptist church. And after the war was over, during Reconstruction, they go back to Jersey City and they send a silver communion set down to the first Baptist church to say thank you. What a beautiful picture of just recognize reconciliation. You know, the war is over and this is what bonds us together, is our communion and the faith. That's the only thing that we have that survives from the first church. There were fires. It smoothed four times. But just to imagine, I've thought in recent days so much about a 23 year old young man taking this first church and what all what those business meetings must have looked like. Can you imagine? [00:30:20] Speaker A: It's hard to think about. I know this 23, when you're 23 years old, seems older than 23 does when you're 57 years old. [00:30:28] Speaker B: Isn't that true? [00:30:29] Speaker A: But. So I'm sure the Lord gave him grace day by day, but it's hard to think about. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Well, it's still here, you know, and just to think about, you know, that young man planting a church during that time and this year and you know, all that goes into this and what it means and doesn't mean. But Outreach magazine recognized First Baptist Fernandina as one of the 100 fastest growing churches in the United States. Planted by a 23 year old kid, you know, in the middle of the Civil War, at the beginning of the Civil War. And just to think about, you know, all that's happened this year. Who knows where those churches will be in 160 years of what we've done here in the state and continue to do in the state. Talk a little bit about what kind of vision has the Lord given you to cast before us? [00:31:21] Speaker A: So you know, the mission of the Florida Baptist Convention, the mission of the organization that the Lord has given me to lead, is to come beside of our churches to help them fulfill their mission of reaching people with the gospel. And as I prayed about what that meant for us, what has to happen for that mission to be accomplished. The Lord put four things on my heart that we call our four mission imperatives. The first is we must evangelize and baptize more new believers every year. We want to see more and more people come to know Jesus. Secondly, we must train up the next generation of God called men and women to fulfill the Great Commission every year. Because just as you said, there's a constant need for new workers to enter into the harvest to make a difference for the kingdom. Third, we must plant new churches and revitalize existing congregations every year. And we're starting churches really at a solid, solid rate here in Florida, about, about 69 to 70 new churches are started by the Florida Baptist Convention in partnership with the North American Mission Board. Every year we need to start more. We're growing in number of churches at about 2.6% every year. We need to expand beyond 3% in order to keep up with our growing population. [00:32:45] Speaker B: And I think that's hard for people to believe because it seems like you, you see churches everywhere, but my goodness, we just started A campus out in the wildlife community. And there aren't many. There's tens of thousands of people flooding into that area. There's just a handful of churches around and only two or three Southern Baptist churches to reach all of those people. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, yeah, sometimes it is hard to believe that we would need any more churches, but we really do. And that's true nationwide, but, man, it's especially true in a place like Florida where the population is just swelling. We're just seeing so many people from all over the country, all over the world coming here. Most of them don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And, you know, we need all kinds of languages, all kinds of churches to reach all the different types of people that the Lord is bringing to us. And so we've got to start more new churches every year. And then. And the fourth imperative for our mission is we must give more generously each year to our cooperative mission together. And we're praying for God to continue to provide. So we're pursuing those four things. And for the rest of the time that the Lord has me in this role, those are the four things that I want us to focus on, because they really are what's going to make a difference in moving our mission forward. [00:34:06] Speaker B: It's interesting, and I hope this comes across the right way. I know you'll take it the right way. I hope people listening take it the right way. That's not creative. [00:34:14] Speaker A: No, it's not. [00:34:16] Speaker B: And it's probably not that different than the same four things that James Kirk Mendenhall said in 1859. [00:34:23] Speaker A: And in fact, when I was praying through this and I sort of articulated those and I'd written them down, I was talking to a guy who I look. Look to as a mentor for advice, and I said, you know, this is bread and butter. You know, it really is. It seems so obvious. Why do I need to say it? He gave me good advice. He said it is what everybody would say. He said, but every leader needs to say it for himself. And I'd say the same thing is true for a pastor. Right. If you're being really creative in what you think the church is supposed to do, then you're probably not doing what the church is supposed to do, because what the church is supposed to do is the Great Commission. And that hasn't changed. For 2,000 years, that's been the same. And the way we do that doesn't change. And so it's not that we don't have to reinvent the wheel, but we do as leaders need to say for ourselves and articulate that same vision that's been constant for the church, for the, for the Church of Jesus Christ as long as the church has been moving forward. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Well, I remember when we first came to Fernandina and we were talking with the search committee and we did one of those open mic Q and A nights where they could just ask anything and they, you know, there's common questions they ask you. One was something like, what would be your strategy? And I said, well, the same strategy I've had with every church and I'm not that creative. So this is, I call it coaching, community and commission. We're going to do dynamic Sunday morning worship services. We're going to have small groups so that we can minister to one another, organize the body, and then we're going to get people involved in the Great Commission going out and sharing their faith. And somebody said in the midst of all of that, that sounds familiar. And I said, I'm going to tell you why it sounds familiar. It's the exact same strategy the First Baptist Jacksonville was using when I came to Christ back in the 90s. And they worded it different, but they called it something like dynamic worship services, organized small groups and intentional world mission, personalized world missions. I said they worded it a little different. I like to alliterate things, but I said, that's the only difference because it doesn't shift and change. We're not trying to figure out something new for the church to do right. We're trying to stay on course and do the main thing. So when you cast that vision, I remember you do sell it really well. I'm going to say that that night I was leaning in. You kind of give you my vision. [00:37:06] Speaker A: I'm leaning in. [00:37:07] Speaker B: I'm getting ready to write it down. I thought, man, this ought to be good. I wrote it all down and I thought, I think that's pretty much what Tommy was doing, too. [00:37:16] Speaker A: It's not different. [00:37:17] Speaker B: It's just the role of the church and staying faithful to that. As you've gotten to know Florida, what's been unique about this state compared to, let's say, North Carolina or the other places you serve? [00:37:30] Speaker A: Well, there are commonalities in all the places that we've served. But one of the things that's really unique for Florida, I believe, is the level of diversity among Florida Baptists. However you want to slice it, we're about as diverse as you can possibly be. [00:37:51] Speaker B: Age, ethnicity, every way. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Right. You know, context. We've got extremely rural churches. We've got extremely urban city center churches. We've got everything you want to name. We have 400 Hispanic churches. We have 400 Haitian churches in the Florida Baptist Convention. So there are 400 Florida Baptist Haitian and 400 Florida Baptist Hispanic congregations. So there are all kinds of. We have about 300 predominantly African American congregations within the Florida Baptist Convention. However you want to slice it, there's a lot of diversity in just every way, but there's a unity of purpose and really a unity of fellowship that we have together that I find unsurpassed anywhere else. I don't know anywhere else that's like it. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Less drama here between the churches. [00:38:47] Speaker A: It has been my experience and it was my experience as a pastor and it's been my experience in this role. And Zach, one of the things I think that helps us to stay together is that we're all folks focusing on one thing. Because wherever we are and whoever we are and whatever our background is, Florida Baptists are focused on reaching people with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that just sort of bridges past all of the other challenges or differences to say we're seeking and we're standing on the authority of the word of God, no question there. And we're reaching people with the gospel. [00:39:27] Speaker B: I don't know how to. When I talk to people in other states and try to explain this to them, what they hear is we compromise on everything else to focus on the gospel. Right. That's not what it. That is not at all what it is. [00:39:40] Speaker A: That's not what's happening. [00:39:41] Speaker B: And it's a strange dynamic. I sat down and spoke with one of our missional strategists, whatever we call them now. Director Mission Bob. Bob Garner. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:54] Speaker B: And Bob and I sat down and we had coffee, I think it was yesterday. And Bob and I were able to talk through a couple of issues. We met together over coffee with no agenda, just to talk. And we saw a couple of things differently. And it's like, that's okay. I'm just as committed to the plan. I'm just as on board. We landed slightly different on a couple of issues, but that's what being a Baptist is about, is that we've been clear on what we unite around and there's some room for people to worship a little differently, organize a little differently. I look out at our church and there's presuppositions. So when a new person comes in, they're like, I really like your worship. You feel like the preacher I grew up with, but I'm kind of from a Charismatic background. Is that okay? It's like, brother, here's what we believe. And we don't take strong positions on a lot of those issues. So if you can worship under that tent, you're welcome here. And then we'll have people who come in from, like I said, Roman Catholic backgrounds, you name it. And we try to keep it somewhat simple in what we must agree on and give liberty on those things where we. And not only in our churches, but among our churches. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Right. I agree. I think that's so vital to say. Okay. We are commonly committed to the inerrancy of the word of God. We recognize that there are people who can start with the exact same commitment convictions about the Word of God who wind up in slightly different places on some things. Right now, there's some things where we say, no, that's out of bounds. That doesn't mean we don't think you're a believer. It's just we're saying, you're not a Baptist, we love you, God bless you. But that's not who Baptists are. That's not who Florida Baptists are, who Southern Baptists are. But within the guidelines of Southern, okay, we believe the word of God and we're moving forward with the gospel, then we can have unity. It's not unity based on the lowest common denominator where we just throw out truth. It's unity based on truth. But it is a unity that allows for some differences. And for me to be able to say, that's like your conversation you had yesterday with Bob, who I love to say, hey, we may have some differences, but I don't look at our differences as a deficiency on your part. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:36] Speaker A: I just look at it as a difference. The two guys who have the same convictions about the Word and about the gospel and about what the church should be, we have some differences in some minor things. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Well. And a lot of times it's not so much that it's division or difference. A lot of times it's a different priority. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:55] Speaker B: Like, for example, I think my mom's the best mom in the world. I would assume that a lot of people in this room would disagree. They would probably prioritize theirs. [00:43:05] Speaker A: And that didn't take anything away from your mom. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Just the way it always, you know. But it's been sweet to see. And I've been here. We'll begin my 10th year next month. And it's been really special. You know, when I got here, that was the word on the street. But I've been here long enough to know now that it's real, it's real, [00:43:25] Speaker A: it's true, and it's different. [00:43:27] Speaker B: So shifting gear somewhat, you're not, you know, we were joking earlier about being in our 50s and all that that entails, but you've seen a lot in 57, is that right? 57 years. You've seen a lot. You've known a lot of people. What are some things that you would say? Because most podcast listeners are in their 20s and 30s. So to young men who are in ministry, what are some things that you would say are common pitfalls that you would say guard yourself, be careful? [00:44:03] Speaker A: That's a good question. I think one pitfall for young pastors is to become impatient with where God has you right now, what God has you doing, and to always be pushing forward. And it's great. I think it's important to have dreams and to have things that you're aspiring to and to be pushing toward those things. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about where you're just continually dissatisfied with, with where you are or what you're doing. And one thing I would tell a young pastor is, hey, be content. The Bible says godliness with contentment is great gain. Be content with where God has you and enjoy it and use the opportunity he's giving you right now to grow yourself, to develop yourself for what he has in the future. So one thing would be, don't be impatient. Another thing I would say is, and this again, just as we said earlier, this is not new information, but it's important. Guard your time every day in the Word of God and guard your time studying the Word, not to bring a word to somebody else, but to just allow God to feed your own soul. And one of the things that's helped me most with that is to have a Bible reading plan that I'm going through every year. And I like the way one person said it. He said, I read the Word of God regularly with a goal toward daily. And I like the way he said. He said, I don't beat myself up if I miss a day, but my goal is daily. Because that daily, daily time in the Word really is something that forms you and strengthens you and sustains you and deepens you in every way. [00:46:04] Speaker B: I know you can't put a. It's different for everybody. But what would you recommend? Let's say if A young man's 23, like we said earlier, he's taking his first self role, what would you say in time that's devotional and then preparatory, how Much devotional time, maybe in a day, would you recommend that he shoot for and how much, maybe preparing for a sermon in today's age, would you? [00:46:32] Speaker A: I would say three to four chapters of the Word of God that you're reading for yourself and feeding on every day, devotionally. Devotionally. And then as a preacher, as an expositor, there always ought to be a portion of God's Word that you're digging into deeply in your study time throughout the week, and usually not just one portion. Maybe you're doing two preps a week. And to have that passage that you're really just focusing on, I think it takes about 16 hours minimally to prepare a thorough exposition of a passage of Scripture. With that for the main preaching service. Now, for the midweek, or if you're doing Sunday night or something, then you streamline your process a little bit. It might take you eight hours or six hours, but for the main message, I'd say 16 hours of prep that week. [00:47:32] Speaker B: I say that I ask the question, one, for the benefit of the young man that's watching, but two, for all the church members who are. What we can say, I think is our ages now, that I couldn't say when I was 23, is, you got to let him do that. [00:47:48] Speaker A: That's right. [00:47:49] Speaker B: You know, you got to guard his time. I had a pastor one time that had taken a new role, and he was super gifted. And that's a danger. When you're gifted as a preacher, you can wing it and not be in the Word as much. And so he was invited or not invited. He had a church member that was in the hospital and it was a smaller church. He's going to visit this church member as he ought. He's walking down the hall and runs into one of his deacons. The deacon happened to be a doctor. The deacon said, preacher, what are you doing here? He says, well, I'm coming to visit Ms. Susie. You know, she had a fall. I'm coming by to see her. And he kind of pulls him aside. He says, give me that card. I'll go make this visit for you. I'll pass your regards onto her. Would you please go back and get in the Word? [00:48:43] Speaker A: Amen. [00:48:44] Speaker B: And I thought, what if every church had a man like that that valued the preaching of God's word and valued that, you know, really, a pastor has got two primary things is to preach and to pray. And if we get those right, so many of the other things are going to fall into place. [00:49:05] Speaker A: Phillips Brooks, who wrote the Joy of Preaching back in the 1800s said that for every pastor, there ought to be two pulls. He said, when you're in the study, you need to feel pulled to the field. He said, when you're in the. In the field, you need to be pulled to the study. And he said, part of learning to be a pastor is learning to live with that tension. Because if we don't spend time with our people, then we don't know how [00:49:36] Speaker B: to preach to them. [00:49:38] Speaker A: But if we don't spend time in that study, we're not going to have anything to say to them. And so to learn to live with that tension and to figure out how to balance that, I think is really important. So I would encourage pastors for the main study. 16. That's the beginning place. That's not the ending place. [00:50:02] Speaker B: That's. With modern technology, that same amount of study might have been doubled 30, 40 years ago when we had to look it all up in photocopy. But today we've got some tools. [00:50:13] Speaker A: We can prepare sermons more quickly now. But. But there's a difference between preparing the sermon and preparing the preacher. The sermon is prepared through study. And we do. We have tools that streamline our study process. Praise the Lord for them. But sometimes we short circuit preparing the preacher. So the sermon's ready, but the preacher's not ready. There's got to be some time to get that message from the page into your mind and into your heart so that when you preach it, it's not like just delivering a speech or standing up and reading a paper that you've written. Instead, there's the idea that this is coming from God's word through me to my people, and that takes some time. So I'd encourage pastors on that. Another thing I would tell a young pastor is this. Guard your rest time. Make sure you take a Sabbath every week. I think if you don't, you're in disobedience to God and you're shortchanging your wife and your family. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Define that. [00:51:25] Speaker A: So for me, a Sabbath means 24 hours of cessation from normal ministry activity. And I'll be careful to say that's a great definition. I didn't always do that. There were times when I didn't do it. Maybe there were times that I thought I couldn't do it. But on a regular basis, you need to take a time when you just step away and you're fully available to your family, to your wife, to your kids, and that you give yourself some rest. I think it helps you to stay in the battle longer when you take those times to rest. [00:52:02] Speaker B: I think it was Tim Keller. I'm not sure who to give credit to, but he said something, and I thought it almost sounded heretical, and I really had to think about it. He said, you know, Scripture calls us to intentional unproductivity in Sabbath, to intentionally be unproductive. And we're Americans, you know, we're pursuing the dream, you know, and I'm a very naturally driven individual. And I think, you know, tithing is intentionally lowering your net worth for the sake of the kingdom. And there's these bottom lines that we look at that Scripture flips over on us and says, no, no, no, a day in seven. I want you to intentionally be unproductive. And that's so hard for me to just wrap my heart around and remember that. [00:53:04] Speaker A: Well, you know, if a pastor got up and told his church, hey, congregation, I'm an alcoholic, there would be a problem. If he gets up and says, I'm a workaholic, they'll pat him on the back for it. So I think we have to recognize our people sometimes will not, because they've got the world's value, too. On that. We just press, press, press, achieve, achieve, achieve. That's what we're supposed to do. So the pastor has to take it on himself to teach his people and to teach his people by example to say, I'm going to take that Sabbath. I'm going to find that time for rest because God commands it and because I need it, and you need it. [00:53:51] Speaker B: And it seems like the other extreme is you can be a very lazy pastor. And so I was invited. Josh Robinson invited me to speak at the pastor's conference for our state. And he gave me like, seven things to pick from. And I said, well, I'm one of the older guys here. Let the other guys pick, and I'll take whatever's left over. Well, hard work is, as a pastor, was the one that was left over. And I said, you know, that's probably the one that I sin in the most, is not taking the Sabbath, you know, and not that I really probably err on the side of doing more than I ought to do. But there's been seasons of life and I've observed in others to where we can kind of get the reputation that's just kind of a. You just kind of sit back and just work one day a week is what the impression that it gives. And there's a place, if we work hard and work smart, that. That one day a week, it's essential. And finding that Balance, I think, is so important. [00:55:00] Speaker A: My dad is 82. He was a barber all of his life, and he just retired on December 31st of last year. So he cut hair for 63 years. For most of my life, he did about, I'm not exaggerating, did about 35 to 40 heads of hair a day. He started work every morning round. First appointment was usually at 6:45, last appointment was at 5:15. When I was a kid, he didn't take a lunch break. I'm not. And I'm just. That's. [00:55:32] Speaker B: I want to. [00:55:32] Speaker A: So that's the kind of work ethic that I grew up with. And until last year, when I've been serving, I'd get up and start my day. And I think Dad's been cutting hair now for two hours, and I'm just starting. So his work ethic helped challenge my work ethic. Right. But at the same time, he'll stop me and say, hey, listen, you need to slow down. You're taking a break. So that's helped me to have a guy who I know works that hard to tell me, hey, you need to slow down every now and then. And that's helped me. [00:56:14] Speaker B: I didn't know that about your dad. I come from a family of barbers, and so my great uncle, my grandfather, great grandfather, a lot of them cut hair. And I remember when my Uncle Gilbert hit about that age and he was about to hang up the shearers, you know, it's like, well, why now? He's like, I'm getting too many years. [00:56:36] Speaker A: I've always said my dad was quit when he started nicking ears. And I thought, same thing for me as a preacher when I start nicking ears. But I don't think he ever nicked anybody. I think he just. Then he started shaking. [00:56:51] Speaker B: He started getting my ear, and I didn't like that little bit. You know how they would give you candy at the end of it? I wanted an extra piece of candy. If you got my ear, one of your main callings. And it's almost like it's not part of the job description. It's just something you've just taken up. You know, you've got a role to fulfill as the executive director, but you have an anointing and a calling and a gifting for training. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Training preachers. [00:57:16] Speaker B: Talk to us about what you've done in that realm. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Well, I spent about eight years as a preaching professor at Southeastern Seminary, and that was getting to be a long time ago. It was from 97 until around 2004. That I was full time, and then after that. Since then, I've been able to teach sometimes Doctor of Ministry seminars, sometimes PhD seminars in preaching. So that's been a big part of my life for a long time, and I love doing that. There's nothing I love more than teaching an introductory sermon prep class to preaching students. And I think the reason it means so much to me is the first class I took at seminary was with my preaching professor, who was. Then later on I got to be his colleague. And he's really a mentor to me. His name's Wayne McDill, and he taught preaching for many years at Southeastern. First day of class, he got up and he said, guys, I'm going to teach you expository preaching. And Zach, I think I'd heard the term expository preaching before, but I really didn't. I didn't know what that meant. He said, I'm going to teach you to preach sermons so that what you say in the pulpit matches what the Bible says, and that will help your people to understand the Bible and how to apply it to their lives. He said, I'm going to teach you to preach in a way where you can preach without notes and where your people will want to take notes. I remember he said that, and I just thought, man, I want to learn. I want to learn how to do that. And I had. I had never preached a sermon. Some guys come to seminary and they preached a little bit. I hadn't preached a sermon, and I didn't have a biblical studies background. I did my undergraduate degree at a secular university in communication and didn't know I was going to be a preacher, so I didn't have any background at all. And, man, that class taught me how to study the Bible in order to preach, how to put together a message that expresses the main idea and the supporting ideas of that text, and then how to explain and illustrate and apply the text and put the message together. That class just changed my life. And I mean, every week I'm doing what he taught me how to do that semester. I judge the effectiveness of what I've done based on how close it comes to what he taught me that semester. So. So if I can be a part of helping somebody else like he helped [01:00:01] Speaker B: me, [01:00:03] Speaker A: I love doing that. So I've had opportunity to help a lot of preachers. I've heard a lot of guys preach their first, second, and third sermons. You're welcome. You know, I've heard a lot of guys preach that beginning sermons. [01:00:23] Speaker B: We just got back at our church. They had gotten away from this, and I don't think we fully developed it. The pipeline still needs a lot of construction, but we still do a midweek service. And so we got a few young men that were feeling called in the ministry. And I said, here's what we'll do. We'll do an internship, give you a little bit of money. You can float around and learn from the different departments of the church. I said, really, the only thing I can teach you is how to preach. I'll teach you what I can about preaching. So I'll assign a text to them and I'll start kind of working through the text. They'll do three or four revisions and they preach their first sermon, which you encourage the fire out of them when they do. But it was neat to see Miller Murdaugh was one of our interns. Miller had gone through Trinity Baptist. He knew the word. He was getting up there to preach. Nervous gifted guy. Really gifted guy. This is his first church sermon, and he gets up there and preaches it. And it occurred to me that's probably the first time in maybe over a decade that a preacher boy got to preach his first sermon at the First Baptist Church. [01:01:38] Speaker A: That's a big deal. [01:01:38] Speaker B: It's. But it's an essential. [01:01:40] Speaker A: It's a big deal. [01:01:42] Speaker B: And so to watch him and to think, he'll never forget that. And I gave him. When he finished his internship, I bought a leather folio from this place that we like, Colonel Littleton, nice kind of thing he could keep in his family. But I gave it to him. And one of the. The things I put in the inscription was, this is the sheath. The Lord will give you the sword. Amen. [01:02:11] Speaker A: That's a good word. [01:02:12] Speaker B: And so I want him just to remember that. That when he stands up there, he's wielding the word of God. [01:02:17] Speaker A: Amen. [01:02:18] Speaker B: It's so important. And one of the ways you do that training is through this sort of format. Tell us about the podcast. [01:02:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, we have a podcast called Right Beside youe in the Pulpit. And the Florida Baptist Convention does it. It's a weekly podcast that I have the privilege of hosting. And here's how the format works. For the first two weeks, you hear a sermon that I preached. And so usually it's been in one of our Florida Baptist churches. And usually it's a message I preached fairly recently. And so the first two weeks are, you know, present the sermon. The third week, I sort of do a behind the scenes talk about how I prepared, kind of dissect it a little bit. I don't want to call it a post mortem of the sermon, but I'm just looking at how I studied it. And usually what I will do is because every text presents a different type of challenge or requires sort of a different take, and I'll usually sort of drill down on some aspect of preaching, preaching that really came to the forefront in preparing that message. So that's the third week, and then the fourth week is always a lot of fun. I have a couple or three pastors, usually Florida Baptist pastors, who listen to my sermon. And then we talk about the passage, we talk about the sermon, we talk about their approach to that text, and that's always a lot of fun. So we just. We do that before we get thing. And we just started it just a few weeks ago. And so I'm excited that it's gotten started. [01:03:55] Speaker B: I didn't prepare you for this, so I'm sorry if it catches you off guard. But as a preacher and as a fan of preaching, I want to know who some of your favorites are, but I want to know it from this perspective. If it's a narrative and then if it's maybe an epistle or maybe if it's eschatological. [01:04:16] Speaker A: Okay, that's a good question. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Who would be your faith if you could hear anybody preach on those types of genre? [01:04:24] Speaker A: I don't know if I can quantify, but I can try. Let me try. So for someone who takes a didactic passage, an epistle, and breaks down the. The piece parts and explains how the phrases and words work together, I still love to hear Jerry Vines preach on an epistle. As much as I love to hear any type of preaching. He just does a great job with it. He knows how to present the word studies compellingly and he's very analytical from my perspective, in the way he puts the message together. And that really fits. I don't know. [01:05:12] Speaker B: He delivers it like he does. [01:05:13] Speaker A: He usually preaches without notes. [01:05:14] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was going to say. There's not the ums and, you know, catching his thought even, you know, in his latter years, he is so articulate in the way he communicates that you presume he's premeditated every word he's saying. [01:05:32] Speaker A: I think. I think he thinks through it very, very carefully. I'm not sure that he writes it ahead of time. From my conversations with him, he's certainly not reading it. No, he comes across so articulate, very, very precise. And by the way, his book, he wrote two, One on sermon preparation, one on sermon Delivery. And then he and Jim Shadducks worked together and put those two books together to become the book Power in the Pulpit classic. Yeah, that book, Power in the Pulpit, came later on in my ministry, but his two books on prep and delivery were just formative for me. And he talks about being a heart preacher and about bringing the message from the preacher's heart, how the preacher's heart has to be engaged with the message. And I think from what I've read in his books and in my conversations with him, that he's really working to internalize that message. But very precise. However he does it, he winds up with a very, very precise message. I'd say him for narrative passages. I probably love to hear my friend Rock Collins preach a biblical narrative better than anybody that I can think of. Rock works with the Tennessee Baptist Convention. He pastored a long time in Tennessee and served as an itinerant evangelist. But when he preaches a narrative, one of the things that I love about it is he really lets you hear the story. A lot of times, guys who are proponents of expository preaching do really well with passages where thought is moving the content. So they're great with a logical. Yeah, they're great with the psalm. They're great with the teaching of Jesus. They're great with an epistle. But if you try to approach a narrative the same way, that same dissection that you do for an epistle. Well, if you do that with a narrative, if you dissect something, you have to kill it first, right? And so if you dissect a narrative, sometimes you lose the power of the story. When I hear Rock preach a narrative, he is helping me to hear that story and then to identify myself in that story, to identify how that story connects with me, and then the implications it holds for me. So I just as soon hear him preach a narrative as anybody in the world. [01:08:16] Speaker B: I ask that question because one of the approaches that I've taken, when I'm picking the text, looking at the pericope and saying, this is the sermon, I think to myself, who would I want to hear preach that, and what would they do differently than maybe another person would? And so not copying that, but sort of channeling some of that influence so that we don't have to approach every text the same way. [01:08:46] Speaker A: Right? [01:08:47] Speaker B: And I love it. I don't know how they mean it when they say it, but a lot of times we just finished Genesis and started Romans, and I had to kind of prepare the people. These are two radically different genres of the Bible, both the word of God, but it's going to feel different. And so if you love Genesis as we go into Romans, I'm going to [01:09:11] Speaker A: be a little different preacher in Romans [01:09:13] Speaker B: than I was in Genesis. And that's on purpose. I'll think about in a narrative sometimes some of the great African American preachers that just could draw that picture with words. And I. I could never do what some of those guys are doing, but I do try to listen and hear and learn from. [01:09:33] Speaker A: I think that's the key to learn from them. Don't mimic them and don't mimic any preacher because if you're called you. Right, right. Nobody's ever going to hear what you sound like if you're always trying to mimic somebody else. And God called you and he'll use you. But to learn from other guys and the way God's put them together to be able to preach God's word can then help us in our approach. [01:09:57] Speaker B: Amen. Well, Dr. Rommge, thank you for all that you mean to me personally, to our church, to our convention, and thank you for coming on Code red today. [01:10:05] Speaker A: It's been my pleasure. Thank you very much, Zach.