Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sa.
All right, Amy and Ashley, welcome to the Code Red studio.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Thank you for having us.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: I thought on the way here, it's like, have we not done this already? Have we not ever had you on Code Red before? So you were one of the first. You and Kevin were one of the first couples that Julie and I connected with when we came here.
We went on a double date with you guys and kind of heard your background.
And I think in that moment you said this was a vision you had.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: And I thought, oh, wow, that's kind of cool because it's neat when people are going to attempt great things. For the Lord never dreamed that it one, one was as complicated as it is, as costly as it is, and that it happened.
So the further you got into it, the more it was like, I'm not sure that that's something anybody can really do outside of a corporate environment.
And you kept going, you kept believing.
And today, tell us what it is God has given you and has used you for.
[00:01:32] Speaker C: Well, nothing short of miraculous. And all of the things that you said, I thought too, that there's no way. And it took me a long time to even have the courage to say my dream out loud of what I believed God was calling me to do because it felt so impossible.
But that's how I know that it had nothing at all to do with me. It has everything to do with Jesus and his willingness to use someone who's willing to do what he's called them to do. So today, Charis Eating Disorder Care is a nonprofit residential treatment facility specific to eating disorders. And we serve adult women in Yulee, Florida. The Lord has given us five acres, three homes on those five acres, and soon there will be a fourth.
And it's just. It's just a privilege to do what we get to do.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: It's a beautiful facility. And you've. We get to meet a lot of your.
How do you. How do you describe the ladies that you work with? Are they considered patients or. They can. What would. How would you describe them?
[00:02:36] Speaker C: We. We call them patients.
There are some people that would refer to them as clients.
We call them patients just because it's hard for someone who struggles with an eating disorder to admit that they need help and that they are sick. But by the time you need a residential level of care, it is life threatening. And so we believe that calling them patients helps them accept the fact that they are quite ill and that they do need help.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: The facility that you've acquired and developed is very.
It's very comfortable, but it's also meets all of the qualifications for a medical facility, which are quite high.
How did you pull a team together to pull that off? Because your background is not in medical practice.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: Definitely not.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: So how did you.
I know the Lord did it, but from the concept we're going to get into, why that was on your radar at all. But from the concept to building the team, which Ashley's a big part of that team, how did you go about finding the people to do it?
[00:03:47] Speaker C: Well, I am recovered from an eating disorder by the grace of God. And part of my story includes time at a residential treatment center.
And so I just took my experience there, there and the parts that were helpful to me and just began to research by law what is required in order to operate a residential treatment center, and then looked at the research behind what is most helpful for that. So I knew that if I was going to do this, anything that we do under the Lord, we want to do with our whole heart and we want to do with excellence.
And so I didn't want to just open a group home where people could come and we'd love on them and help them the best we could. I wanted to operate according to the highest of clinical standards with the deepest of spiritual roots, because both are necessary for a lasting transformation.
And the clinical director at the treatment center where I experienced help was incredible. I remember being there, and the Lord has just always given me eyes for administration. And I just remember being so impressed with her, worried for her because she was such a hard worker, but just really was impressed with her. And so I just began to pray. It was a wild dream, just as wild as opening a nonprofit residential treatment center. But I just began to pray that the Lord would somehow move in her heart to come and help me. And so I reached out to Ashley and told her what I wanted the Lord to do. And she said, well, I, you know, I'll help you in any way I can from Tallahassee. And she came and did some of the initial training for our staff.
And I just told her, just very honestly, I said, I need you. I need you to help me do this work. I need you to come and lead this team. And I just kept praying until she said, yes.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Ashley, how long have you been on the team?
[00:05:46] Speaker B: I have been at Charis since February of 2023.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Okay.
I remember, I think Julie met you at some event and she was bragging on like, this is the girl to do this. I mean, she's really got what it takes. You had been the director where Amy, when She was going through that season of life.
How is it working with a former patient?
[00:06:10] Speaker C: Do you need.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: We'll tell those secrets later.
You know, it's unconventional. I think by most standards, it would have been something if you had asked me before that I would have said I would never do as a clinician.
But at the same time, I think that's where we both just recognize it's a God thing. That wouldn't make sense by any other understanding but what he's done.
So I did get to work with Amy while she was a patient at the treatment center I was running. And then throughout her outpatient work, once she left and came back to this area, we just remained in contact as she was an alumni of our facility. And so I just continued to see the ways that God was working in her life. And she would come to alumni events. I knew very well her treatment team. So I could kind of check in and make sure she was on the up and up and doing what she needed to do. So she would come and speak to our patients at the time.
And so we just stayed connected. And I just had this pull to know I wanted to be a part of what she was doing. And at the time, I just thought, that's probably going to be through prayer, maybe it's going to be through teaching or training. But I never envisioned myself to.
To move and to be able to be a part of it again.
Except just to say it's a God thing.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that in itself is just a neat story because, you know, when we're interviewing potential hires, you put your best foot forward. You know, you really want them to see you at your best. She's seeing you at your worst in your darkest moment. So it's not like you're hiding some part of yourself that she's going to find out one day, you know, and she's still. And I think that's a big part of recovery, is knowing that people can love you even when you've been through some really hellish times.
And this, I know this is holy ground. And so you don't go any further than you're comfortable going. But tell us a little bit about your experience with recovery and. And the pathway that brought you, brought this onto your. Your radar, because as a little girl, people.
This seems to be one of those issues that people don't always have.
Tell me if I'm wrong, because, I mean, I'm obviously not an expert at it, but it seems to be an acquired issue that people begin to develop. Am I right about that? Or is that incorrect?
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Yeah, no, you're correct. It's been said that jeans load the gun G E N E S and jeans J E A N S pulse the T trigger. And so I was genetically predispositioned to develop an eating disorder, but it was the world that I lived in and the things that I experienced that pulled that trigger.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Before you unpack it further, the genetic predisposition toward it, is that the type predisposition like I would probably have an addictive personality based upon my family history. We had a lot of alcoholics in our family. And so I've always assumed that's probably something that I would have a tendency toward.
Is it the same type of predisposition or are there certain personality types or is there anything measurable that we can look at and say a person may be more at risk toward an eating disorder? Or could that just as easily had been alcoholism or something else that might
[00:09:52] Speaker C: be a good one for you to answer? Yeah, I think there's certainly a lot
[00:09:56] Speaker B: of similarities between those that are predisposed to developing an eating disorder and an addiction.
A lot of the same personality traits I think you could see going either way. It could go either way, right? That there could be some type of maladaptive behavior that could come from that. I think for eating disorders specifically, some of the personality traits are they tend to be incredibly high functioning individuals, often very perfectionistic, which can lead to more obsessive thinking and even ruminative thoughts.
So those are some of the personality traits that we do tend to see that are most prominent. And yet at the same time, you could also meet individuals who are highly perfectionistic, high achieving performers who don't develop eating disorders. And that's kind of what Amy was describing as such. So it's considered a biopsychosocial disorder. There's the biological component, but you also have the environment, social and cultural aspects that are going to have a great impact on whether someone does or doesn't develop an eating disorder.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: So the disposition that you had, what were the, the cultural phenomenon that pushed you toward this particular disorder?
[00:11:17] Speaker C: Well, I had no idea of any of this at the time. If you would have asked me as a college student if I had experienced trauma, I would have said no, that I did not have trauma in my life.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: And I know your story enough to know the wow behind that.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: It's like, man, the more I've unpacked my story, the more I have learned that my normal was actually not very normal at all.
So my story begins back with an abduction by My father at the age of three.
And we were told at that time that our mother was dead, that we did not have a mom.
We were not allowed to grieve, that.
I remember even trying to. I was sad about that one afternoon and was told that was silly, that I didn't have a mom. And that's just the way that it was.
My brother was with me at the time, and I don't ever remember feeling like his sister. I've always just felt more maternal in nature with him because it's always just been him and me. But when I was in the first grade in the spring of 1982, some men came into my classroom, and they basically took me and they were helping my mom. My mom had found out where we lived, and she flew to Washington state from Virginia.
Really, it was kind of a second abduction. We were. My brother and I were told that our. Our dad didn't want us to live with him anymore and that he had given her permission to take us back. And so at the age of seven, everything that had become our life was just pulled out from under us.
We were flown to a different state, different school. They even changed our last name. The rules were completely different.
But once again, we weren't allowed to talk about it. We weren't even allowed to say that we were from a broken home.
We were not allowed to cry about it. We were told to dry up our tears, that there was no reason for us to be sad. We had so much to be thankful for, and.
And that's just the way it was. It was just. We had. We were taught to practice radical acceptance with no emotion.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: And that was normal to you?
[00:13:29] Speaker C: That was our normal.
And then I was just a very vulnerable little girl. I think.
I think I'm still even learning that those experiences were probably a lot more impactful on my life than I've ever recognized. I recently, just last month, connected with my first grade teacher who was in the classroom that day. And just hearing from her perspective and the trauma that she experienced and that the classmates experienced, just blows my mind to think of what the Lord protected us from, because honestly, we should have fallen apart.
But we kept going.
And when I was in high school, I experienced several forms of sexual assault that I believed to be my fault. When I told a trusted adult when the first occurrence happened, I just wanted help. And I just. I felt so gross and so awful about what had happened, But I was told that I had placed myself in that position. And so everything that I was already feeling, all the dirt and shame it was like, that was just impressed on me that I chose that I put myself in that position and that's why it happened. And so when other things happened, I didn't dare tell anybody about it because I believed that I know how, but I kept putting myself in that place. And so I just hated myself more and more and more because that's not the person I wanted to be. I was perfectionistic. I was a people pleaser. I wanted to be good. I wanted to be holy. I loved Jesus, and. And I wanted to be pure.
And I didn't understand why I kept doing that in my mind. And so I never told anybody about that until I got to college and started dating a man. We were going to be married and we were going to be missionaries, and I just loved him so much. But the more we talked about marriage, the more I thought, he's marrying somebody that's just really gross and awful and he has no idea.
And so one day I just thought, I have to tell him. And so I just told him about one of the things that I had experienced that I believed I put myself in that place and that's why it happened. And I now can name it as rape, but I didn't have language for it at that time.
And I think it was one of those times that I just. I just wanted him to make it all okay because I loved him so much and. And I felt so worthless and dirty about it, and I just needed him to make it okay. But his reaction was horrible. Like, he collapsed to the ground with his head in his hands and he physically cried and said, my whole life I have prayed that God would allow me to marry a virgin. I've only ever wanted to marry a woman who is pure, and you can never be that.
And it just sent me spiraling into deeper shame. And then our relationship just got really strange. He became very controlling. Obviously he had issues of his own.
But about that same time, my brother, whom I had always assumed responsibility for, began to get in lots of trouble, legal trouble.
And he had always had a propensity toward trouble.
I had promised him when I was. When we were little and we were abducted, I promised him one night when we were crying together in bed that I would take care of him no matter what. I was going to protect him, and I just couldn't because my emotions. I know now, like, I just pushed him down inside, but he just raged and he. Trouble found him everywhere he went. But now that he was in college, trouble looked different for him. And there was nothing that I could do to protect him. And I was terrified.
I was also taking a health class.
I'd put that off until the end of my junior year.
And so I took this class. And sadly, part of our grade was our bmi.
And my BMI was not in the A range. It's terrible. It should never have happened. But. But it.
And so being the perfectionist that I was, I was not okay with not having an A in anything. But. But because it was about my body that I already hated so much and thought was disgusting and gross, it was even more not okay. And so another part of our grade was that we had to move. We had to exercise at least five times a week. And we also had to write down everything that we ate and everything that we drank.
And I was like a lot of other college students. You know, what college student didn't want to lose a little bit of weight? And I thought, well, I could do that and get my body into the A range and do all the things that I'm supposed to do. And so it just felt like a checklist to me. I'll do all of these things and get what I want.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: And it probably made you feel a little bit in control. Like you.
[00:18:16] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: When life was out of control.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: I think probably we have a similar personality in that way. When it's more people like myself, if they feel like they can't control their work, they can't control their family, then they tend to go, like, to the gym where they can control the gym. They can. They know they can do that. You know, I've just not controlled anything, so let it go. But maybe I can control these cameras or something. But.
But, yeah, I've never. Never leaned into that. But I've. But when I go, I meet a lot of people that I. It's like, man, I know what you're doing, and you feel. You feel in control here, and you're kind of. You're going deep, you know?
[00:19:00] Speaker C: And for some people, that's not going to kill them.
For some people. Now, I don't believe they're as free as God wants them to be, but it's not going to kill them.
But for me, that this. This was a thing that would kill me. It wasn't just something that had control over my life in such a way that I could manage it and go on. It was. It was tanking me quickly. And so what I was learning and really kind of had it scripted on paper that if I ate this much and I ran this much, then I weighed this Much. But if I ate this much and I ran this much, then I weighed this much, and it was just like this perfect storm. And I ran harder and harder and harder, but I also felt less and less and less. And it was that perfect emotional anesthetic that I had been looking for my whole life, and I didn't know it existed.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: I want you to unpack that a little more. When you say you felt less and less, was it numbing?
[00:19:57] Speaker C: It is numbing, and that's actually one of the impacts of a malnourished brain.
And so because my intake was moving to starvation level, it was impacting the way that I felt. And. And so one of the natural consequences of that is that it's not that you don't feel. It's kind of hard to explain, but
[00:20:18] Speaker A: emotionally, you don't react the same way.
[00:20:20] Speaker C: It's like blunted. So if this is the continuum of emotions and this is the extreme low, and this is the extreme high, it's not that I'm never sad and not that I'm never happy, but I just kind of stay in that middle. So it's just very blunted. Got it. So those things might. That extreme worry about my brother. I would not feel the extremity of that. That just felt so paralyzing. But I still worried about him. But it just wasn't the extreme of that.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: It was almost like a drug, it seems like helped you to go forward, do regular life, but it was an unhealthy escape or not healthy blunting of that.
[00:20:59] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Before we go further in it, I'm curious because you. You had a relationship with Christ through this time, the church and I can speak about, you know, my experience. I was never taught anything about this in. In seminary or college, even had no experience with it that I was aware of. Looking back, I'm like, oh, that's what this person was dealing with, or that person. But at the time I did. I didn't know that. I didn't know how to. What not to say or what I should say.
What did you find? Were you able to go to pastors or counselors, or were they kind of part of the problem during that time? I know obviously your fiance at the time didn't respond properly.
What did you find in the Christian community?
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Yeah, well, this was back in the early 90s when it just was very much unknown. Not unknown. It just was. There wasn't a lot of knowledge about it. Even now, when you think of today, there's a lot more awareness of it, but still not as much as we would like. But in the early 90s, there just. There was not much awareness at all. And so I.
I don't believe that it was handled as well as it could have been. But also, we give people grace for what they don't know until they learn it.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Did you find. Was it a stigma on it? You know, today, I think. I think I would compare it maybe to alcoholism that at one time there was a huge stigma, and now it's seen more like, you know, a demon people are battling rather than a personal flaw.
Have you seen that change over the years with the way the church looks at it?
[00:22:41] Speaker C: It depends on the church. I'm really grateful that we have several churches that come alongside Charis and support us, but we also have at least the same number, if not more, that would say that's not something we would support. I think just mental illness in general, people are more aware of it and more accepting and realizing this is a real thing. This is a real part of living in a broken world.
But there are some that still don't believe in it. And look at it through the lens of the Bible has the answers for everything we need in life. Therefore, you should not be depressed. Therefore, you should not be anxious. You should not have an eating disorder.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Does it kind of throw a verse at it? Is that the approach?
[00:23:21] Speaker C: Yes, for sure.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Do they put it in the category of a sin issue, or how do they look at it? I'm trying to think how they would process that.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: My parents certainly did, and part of the challenge was that my stepfather, the father who raised me, was a Southern Baptist pastor, and they believed that it was sin, that this was a choice that I was making.
I went to a university and just loved it. Those were some of the best years of my life. I was able to go there on scholarship because I sang on a traveling ministry team.
But it was my life. Those people were my family.
We practiced three hours a week every day and traveled every weekend, so we were always together.
But I lost that. I was kicked off of that team. So I lost my scholarship. I really lost that family.
I was not allowed to live on campus anymore because they said that I was too much of a liability. So I had to move home, and I had to commute an hour and 45 minutes each way to be able to finish out the year.
I was a sign language interpreter, and I was fired from that because of it. And even at home, I had not attended my home church for three years because of being on the ministry team. But now that I was living at home and going to church. I. I've always loved to sing. I've always loved to worship. Those are the times that I feel closest to the Lord. And so I wanted to be a part of the ministry team there. But I literally. These are words you just can't forget. I was told, people can't stand to look at you. And I was not allowed to serve in that way. And so really, it was the lowest time in my life because I felt rejected by everyone.
I was required to see a therapist in the city that I was attending college and.
But he didn't understand eating disorders at all. We would just get headlocked into. He'd say, well, let's just say you ate a piece of cheese. And I would say, I would not eat a piece of cheese. And he'd say, but let's just say you would. And so the focus was just on what I ate, which.
That's just the mental obsession part. That's not what an eating disorder is really about.
And so you really need a clinician who specializes in treating eating disorders to be able to help you get to the roots of what it's really about. So it really was just this cycle of rejection and a lack of understanding. And I felt really hopeless.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Amy did.
Sounds like. I'm trying to imagine our viewers, people that are watching this. And it sounds like I can understand somebody hearing your story and going, it sounds like very strict dieting.
And it was more than that.
And I know you've described it as more than that, and in the sense that this was getting physically threatening.
So how would you differentiate between someone who is just strict on their diet, they're well disciplined and they want to stick to a certain routine compared to or contrasted to being on this runaway train of dieting and something that could ultimately take your life? Like, what was. Was it.
Was it the goal that was different? Like, did you have an idea that there was a certain number you could get to that would be healthy or you would look your best? Or was that not there? How did you. How did. What was going on in your mind during those times?
[00:26:47] Speaker C: Well, first, I would say that there are all kinds of different eating disorders.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: I've seen that to be true. I looked through some of the acronyms. There were a few that I've never heard of.
[00:26:56] Speaker C: They. They all seem to have a restrictive element in them, but the behaviors are very different across them.
My behavior of choice, if you will, was restriction, primarily. And there was always a number that was the goal, but it always moved it was not the same.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: So when you looked in the mirror, was there dysmorphia?
Was what you were seeing different than what everyone was telling you they saw?
[00:27:30] Speaker C: Yes, that was very much true.
I, I, the professionals all told me that I could not see myself as I really was.
And I think that the dysmorphic part is different for everybody as well. Because at my most sick point, I didn't look in the mirror and think that I was fat, but I also did not see myself according to what everybody else was describing. I thought I looked normal.
And I would say my goal is I'm not trying to lose weight, but I also wasn't trying to gain weight.
So you could probably explain a little bit better how that dysmorphic piece works.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: And I've got two daughters, I've got a son that's in the entertainment industry. So they're in the spotlight all the time and they're aware of when they put on a few pounds or whatever.
And as a parent, when do we begin to go, okay, this is not, it's okay to say I need to be at my peak health or I want to be in good shape, but it's also, it can be dangerous if it becomes what, how do we know when we have a problem?
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a great question because you're right, I think whether you're in entertainment industry or anywhere else, what we've come to know and what research shows is that everyone's impacted by diet culture, by just what we see within our social and cultural norms, at least in westernized culture.
And it is very much a focus on aesthetics. So when, even when we're doing education about eating disorders, it's to acknowledge it's not just about changing the aesthetic. You know, an eating disorder affects the physical body, but it also affects a person's mental and emotional and psychological well being, their spiritual health. All of that is impacted.
And so I think part of that is to see, you know, there are behaviors like you mentioned someone, someone might be wanting to just feel healthier, want to be stronger, more mobile.
And that's not necessarily a wrong goal, but it can quickly spiral when those behaviors begin to affect their sense of self.
And so I think that's what we see a lot within the eating disorder population is that it goes so far beyond the behaviors, but it's, it's more about the underlying issues that the behaviors are trying to mask or cope with.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: I'm curious, this is a little, not off topic, but it's a little bit of a rabbit trail. We'll get back on the storyline.
Recently, the GLP1s, the weight loss drugs, have become so prominent.
Does that throw fuel on the fire for people who are predisposed to this sort of thing or what?
[00:30:33] Speaker B: It absolutely could.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Have you encountered that in the, in the.
In Charis. You have?
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Okay, yes.
Yes, it absolutely is, I think, just another. Just another element where, you know, people are just oftentimes seeking comfort and satisfaction and acceptance and approval, and they see, you know, something that, that is kind of promising, that you see it even in, in the ads.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Of how they promote them.
It's, well, if I take this, I'm going to feel better about myself. I will be more accepted by the people around me. I'll be more approved of within the social construct of the world we live in.
And so not everyone who takes a GLP1 is at risk for developing an eating disorder. It doesn't mean they have one, but it's incredibly dangerous for those that do, partly because it's become so easily accessible. Now, the medications have been around for a long time and were used for appropriate diagnoses, but now it's now targeted for weight management and in an extreme way.
So for those with an eating disorder, it can absolutely be a really dangerous behavior.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: When you were deciding in your school years what type of medical practice you were going to work in, what caused you to take this path?
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Well, I grew up a dancer, and so I. I was constantly in. In that world, and I really wanted a way to be able to have a career and also be able to be a performer as well, in whatever way God saw that fit. So I also knew my parents probably weren't gonna go for a dance degree, so I thought I'd need a backup plan.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Well, and that community has a significant number of struggles in this area.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: And so I never struggled with that personally, but I did have acquaintances that I just observed.
It's hard not to be observant of that when so much of it is body focused. You do begin to hear those around you who are very preoccupied with the aesthetics and the way they feel about their bodies. And so I just began doing research of going, how could I still be a part of this community and yet still have maybe a more steady, stable career?
And so I began to see that sports teams and large dance companies had sports dietitians that would work with them. And I thought, well, that would be perfect. You know, it'd be a way I can be connected. But also there's kind of the advocacy piece you're really Watching out for the health of these performers, these athletes.
So I went into sports nutrition is what I thought I was going to be doing.
And then throughout my undergrad, I just kept getting kind of brought back to eating disorders. And I just thought, I don't know anything about this. I never struggled with it myself. Like, why does this kind of keep landing in my lap?
So I just couldn't get it off of my mind. And I thought, okay, Lord, I'm going to look into it and see what does that even look like to potentially be a dietitian in an eating disorder facility.
And so I just began researching facilities. I realized that there was one in my hometown that I never knew had existed because I had never needed the service myself.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Was it in Tallahassee?
[00:34:13] Speaker B: It was in Tallahassee.
So I, I reached out to them and, and just said, I just believe God is calling me to be here.
They were a faith based organization, eating disorder residential. Everything I read about it, I just spent hours scouring their website and I just told them, I think I'm supposed to be here. I don't, you know, I'm like, I don't have a degree yet. I was like, I'll just, I'll just come volunteer. Which they did allow me to, of course.
And so I started there in 2007 and I stayed there for almost 15 years.
And it just became a passion of mine that I didn't know existed.
But I think God used my time and protected me from it, but also allowed me to be observant of young girls and young women who, you know, had struggled so much with just being comfortable and confident with how they were created.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: Well, I think that's where a lot of us are at. We're in that position to where we have people in our circle of influence. You know, as a pastor, I'm certain we've got a number. And to be able to educate ourselves, to grow in it, to use our influence to minister the appropriate time is important.
Amy, when was your first experience with a facility that you recognized something was there that you could get help? Was that after you met Kevin or was that before?
[00:35:39] Speaker C: Well, before I met Kevin was when I initially struggled and was diagnosed with an eating disorder. And it did reach a point where they were recommending that I go to one of the only treatment centers in the nation at that time.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Was that a Christian facility or was it.
[00:35:56] Speaker C: At the time it was, yes.
It's recently been bought out and is no longer. But at the time it was, wow,
[00:36:02] Speaker A: thank God for that.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: At the Time, yes. Except for I was hard headed and that would be surprising to some for sure, but I refused to go.
And so it's. That is when the Lord brought Kevin into my life. And, and I know that, that he used him in so many ways, but I've always known that he loves me for me because like I said, I literally had people saying they couldn't stand to look at me. And so I assumed if I'm not pleasant to look at, then he must love something else.
And he held my hand and I began to walk that road of recovery.
We got married really quickly and because I was taken out of a pretty toxic situation, there was this, this new life that was kind of breathed into me and I was doing better.
But the problem is I did not fully recover. And at the time my understanding was this was just something I was going to have to manage for the rest of my life. It was not something that I would ever fully recover from.
I would just need to learn to manage it.
And somehow, by the grace of God, I. I managed to manage it for a couple of decades. And I honestly, I never told my husband about the sexual abuse that I had experienced that I didn't know was abuse at the time, but I'm not proud of that. But honestly, I was terrified that he would respond in the same way. So I never told him anything.
And those masks of perfectionism and people pleasing and overachieving were just my constants because I hated the person that I believed that I was. And I didn't want anybody to see that. And so I just tried to be this perfect person who had it all together and managed to do that somewhat decently for a couple of decades until some adult life stressors began to affect me and depression hit me like a Mack truck.
And my marriage began to struggle and I sought help again and happened to find a good therapist who started asking me questions about my background and my past. And I felt safe enough to begin processing that for the first time.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: Were you acting out by that time?
[00:38:31] Speaker C: At that time I was not.
But as I began to process the trauma, it was, it said that the body keeps the score.
And I believe that's true because it was almost like these embers that I had kept pushing down all those years. It was like somebody just threw kerosene on it. And I was actually away. I was on the executive staff of a church and we were away with the executive team. And I will never forget, we went out to eat and I went back to the hotel room and I engaged in a Behavior that I hadn't done in over 20 years on the church trip with the other executive leaders, because eating disorders don't discriminate. And it just spiraled downhill so quickly.
But as I was processing through, I've learned that there was so much trauma to work through that it was really impossible to do that trauma work and then step right back into real life. It was like I had to just extinguish it. I'd process it and then push it down. And that's exactly what the eating disorder wanted. And so those behaviors were a way for me to like push it down even further. And so it just got really bad really quickly.
And I was resistant to recognizing how bad things were. And my outpatient dietitian at the time communicated to my therapist how, how severe things really were.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: I've heard, I've heard someone say it, said it sounded almost blasphemous when I heard it. But the more I've thought about it, I think I may agree with him. He said that in some ways it was easier to walk with God in the first century, in the time of Jesus, than it is now, because you had these long walks between cities and you can process a lot during a three day journey.
And you know, today we go from event to event, high stress, high stress constantly. And you're right to work through trauma, to work through some things we've experienced, it takes some shutdown time and reflection time, and we don't give ourselves that.
Have you been able to develop a habit of that or is that what Charis is?
Is it a place for people to have that time, to just not have to worry about meal prep, not have to worry about kids, to just focus on healing?
[00:40:54] Speaker C: That is part of it for sure.
So Charis is a medically monitored family facility. So we work with a psychiatrist, primary care physician. We have an RN on site because when you qualify for a residential level of care, you are at risk for death.
But the purpose of that often is usually people have to go to residential because they are unable to keep themselves safe at an outpatient level.
And I don't remember the exact same statistic, but those who struggle with an eating disorder very often have a trauma background, and so it does allow a place to begin the trauma work. Now it's not safe to do trauma work with a malnourished mind. And so we do have to stabilize nutrition before that can happen.
We have to get through the refeeding process and all of that before we can even begin that work. And they're not able to stay at a residential level of care long enough to complete the trauma work. But it does allow them to begin it with the support around them to continue nourishing their body and to protect them from compensatory behaviors to be able to get that work started.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: I'm asking this out of sheer ignorance and I'm asking it for the people who may have a loved one that needs something like this. Is there. So for example, if someone went into alcohol recovery, there might be a prescription given to them that helps them to resist the urges. Does that exist in eating disorders or is that something that you guys don't really. Is it mostly just not clinical care but more counseling and controlling the environment, or are there chemical biochemical type helps for it?
[00:42:45] Speaker B: I think because we see eating disorders as, as a biopsychosocial disorder, we've got to do a multidisciplinary approach.
So at charis, what that looks like is having all of those providers that Amy mentioned, having a psychiatrist who is evaluating for medication management. Because so often an eating disorder will also have co occurring psychiatric disorders.
Many of them will, will be clinically depressed, have anxiety or obsessive compulsive disorder. Amy mentioned about the trauma history, that most individuals who will struggle with an eating disorder will have an experience with trauma in their lifetime. So many of them have a PTSD diagnosis. So with that, there's oftentimes a need for medication management in addition to the clinical care that you were talking about. So, so we're doing all of that on site so that they're having those evaluations, they're meeting with a licensed therapist to do the counseling, they're meeting with a dietitian who's doing the nutrition therapy, the nursing oversight. So all of that's happening holistically in the same place. And I think in an outpatient setting that just often is a barrier, you know, whether it's through just having the means to do it, the finances to do it, the accessibility.
So we're able to bring all of that in house where they can live in a comfortable, safe environment and do really uncomfortable work.
[00:44:18] Speaker A: Right. That's a great way to put it. And it does give you that break from real life.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: It does, in a sense they have
[00:44:24] Speaker A: responsibilities, but it's not so much of the pressure is a little more manageable.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: And I think when someone has gotten to a place where they qualify for a residential level of care they require, they're going to need to be outside of that typical environment. Because so often the environment is fueling the Dysfunction, So we have to remove them from that and like you said, just kind of take away some of those day to day life stressors to be able to focus really specifically on the core issues.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: Do people, when they come to Charis, do they feel worthy of focusing on themselves that much?
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Most often?
[00:45:07] Speaker C: No.
[00:45:07] Speaker A: How do you convince them that they're worthy of that?
[00:45:12] Speaker C: There's lots of little things that we try to do that are little but we hope speak volumes because that is so often the mentality. They hate themselves so much. There's just so much self loathing and even they just abhor that they have any needs at all. And, and so we try to create a home that is aesthetically pleasing for them.
We take care of all of the physical needs that would be there. So we keep it clean for them.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: It's near the beach.
[00:45:45] Speaker C: It is near the beach.
Light beach therapy.
But we have a group that handmade quilts for them and prayed over the quilts and there's little messages embroidered on the quilts that, that tell them how worthy they are and that they're prayed for as they lay under these covers. There's another nonprofit that provides gift bags for them upon admission for just some comforting things that we're able to give them.
We use real china for them at the table because they deserve to use good things. There are verses, framed wall art of verses all over the house, all over the mirrors that just remind them about what God says about them and the price that Jesus paid for them, which is what makes worthy the love that he has for them. And because he first loved us, that is why we love them and why they deserve this love. So it's really, that's kind of holistic as well. We try to bless them over the holidays. We have such an incredible community that gives and gives and so many of them say, like, I can't believe that I was in treatment at Christmas, but it's the best Christmas I've ever had.
So we just try to pour out love to them in those ways that tell them you are worthy not because of anything that you've done, but because Jesus lives in you and that changes everything.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Amen.
I want to turn the page a little bit and ask, as a pastor, okay, you've been incredibly gracious to me because I came out of a community where these things are things you joke about.
To be honest, there were a number of things that I grew up joking about that weren't really worth joking about, you know, and that's a learning curve and those are habits And I wouldn't say at all that I've learned, you know, I'm learning.
And you've been gracious, as someone who's in the thick of this, to remind me, you know, from time to time that that is a thing.
And I think it seemed like there was one, one sermon in particular that might have been a little more triggering early on when you first started doing this, and you had a very gracious approach to me to say, hey, that could kind of trigger my patience a little bit.
So just if that's going to come up, if you could give me a heads up, that'd be great. And I'm like, wow, I never thought about that in my life.
And as the church, as pastors that are watching this, what are some things just to be aware of?
We can't walk around on eggshells constantly, but what are some things that may be hurting more than it's helping? Certainly humor could be.
What other kind of things do we need to be aware of in the Christian community?
[00:48:37] Speaker C: I can't tell you how much I appreciate you asking that question.
That's just so sensitive.
And to be honest, we.
We live in a world where even the best intentions are sometimes so infiltrated with diet culture.
I mean, my favorite podcaster is a pastor, and there are things that he says that I just cringe because they're so aligned with diet culture.
We, we do have to have conversations with our patients after church sometimes just to remind them that if you've never struggled with an eating disorder, that's not your world.
Most often that happens, like around Thanksgiving or a holiday when we passively make jokes about overeating or if we moralize food in some way. And we often say that this world was not created for recovery.
Kind of like I said with the exercise, there, There are people who will never develop an eating disorder, but who follow very rigid diet rules.
And that might be okay for them, but a phrase we use is, that's not for me. And even in protecting my recovery, when I hear things like that, I automatically hear a voice in my head that says, that's not for me.
[00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah, any. Any type of struggle, I think, you know, there are things that, that you can experience that I couldn't go into that environment, you know, and that's going to be common, I guess, with any type of weakness that we might have.
I'm curious, when it comes to things biblically, when you're looking at, like I've heard people say before in seminary, you can describe church history or history as a Whole as a series of meals. You know, it began in the garden, it ends at the marriage supper of the lamb.
You've got Passover in the Old Testament, we've got the Lord's table in the New. And so much of Jesus ministry was over a meal.
So it's something that is such a part of life. I mean, Jesus described himself as the bread of life. It's such a part of life, and it's such a part of Christianity.
How do you approach those things, not avoid those things, but at the same time not create a stumbling block unnecessarily?
[00:50:59] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:51:00] Speaker A: And I'll give you a comparison.
I would say we've got people that you would know that struggle with alcoholism, or they've had that in their past.
And there's a tendency for me to just want to avoid any text that's going to speak to it. But I don't think I can do that in good conscience. I've got to address the issue.
I've got to address what, you know, healthy perspective on that might look like what's dangerous, you know, is that the kind of thing that a pastor should be aware if there are people in this congregation to give them maybe a warning, you know, or is it something that. Is there a way to do it that's better than what we're doing currently?
[00:51:47] Speaker C: We actually have a section on our website that is specific for pastors, what we want them to eat.
[00:51:53] Speaker A: We'll put a link to that.
[00:51:55] Speaker C: That would be awesome.
I would say fasting is a big one.
I think it's become the norm for pastors just to throw that out, generally that we are going to fast together.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: I never thought of that.
[00:52:09] Speaker C: And usually that's about food.
Well, what we teach our patients is that one of the main purposes of fasting is to draw you closer to the Lord. But for someone with an eating disord, not eating food does not draw us closer to the Lord. That draws us closer to the eating disorder. And so during that season, if I want to participate in fasting, then what is something that I could do more in abundance of that would bring me closer to the Lord. That's a good word.
Because eating disorders, they don't just restrict food, they restrict life. So there's this mentality and this. This innate feeling that. That anything that I do for myself is wrong. So I'm not going to shop, I'm not going to eat. I'm not going to treat myself to this. Like we just restrict life and so restricting anything, really. Like. So I've heard some people say, well, don't restrict, restrict your food, but restrict this. But that just kind of feeds that eating disorder in, in that restrictive vein. And so we try to help them see that, like, if the goal is to be closer to God, then what can you do more of?
And so my commitment might be that I am going to instead, like while I'm eating my breakfast, instead of just having the radio on, I'm going to have my Bible open and I'm going to read during that time, what can I do more of that will bring me closer to God?
[00:53:37] Speaker A: Is it Isaiah where it says the fast that the Lord loves?
It's when you do good. It's when you're not just walking around in sackcloth and ashes, you're actually serving one another, you're helping your community more and drawing near to the Lord that this is the fast that the Lord loves.
That's very helpful because most of the time, I think as pastors, we feel guilty. We don't talk enough about fasting.
It seemed to be such a discipline in the New Testament that we're afraid to touch.
Does it help you if a pastor says, hey, this, this day, you might want to prep your people or you might want to worship somewhere different, you know, to give you that freedom so that you know what's coming. You know, with us. If people that don't know you're part of our congregation, you know what we're working through. Like, we're going, we started Romans. You can kind of read ahead and see where we're going.
Is it helpful if a person is in that community to have those conversations and give a heads up, or how would you want us to best help your community?
[00:54:42] Speaker C: Yes, that's very helpful. And we honestly, we take our patients every other week between two churches to try to protect their anonymity, but also for that reason. So if we know that this church is working through this and we actually have someone on staff who goes to the early service, and so if there's something that might be triggering, then we go to the other church. And if the other church is working through something and we have a staff member that's there, then they'll text and say, not a good Sunday to be there and we'll go to the other one. So it really serves two purposes, but it is so helpful if we do know in advance just because they're already doing such hard things.
And you would be surprised the number of our patients that come with church hurt. Some of them have been so horribly hurt by People in the name of Jesus.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: I can imagine that's huge. Nothing hurts like that for sure.
I think when you go to a place that's supposed to be life giving and you don't find that, or it's just misinterpreted or miscommunicated, whatever.
And all of these same principles would apply in any other disorder we've got in our community. We've got you guys. And that's normal for us to have a group of people that have that particular issue. But in another community, it might be people who are nearly out of prison, it might be people who are dealing with a substance abuse issue, whatever. So principles of just working together for health are really important and really helpful.
If someone is here watching and they have a friend, they have a family member or personally, they think this might be helpful to them.
First of all, how often do you even take new patients? I would assume there's a wait list.
[00:56:30] Speaker C: Yes, there's always, sadly, a very long waiting list.
But that's one of the reasons that we're working hard to expand so that we can help more people.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: How many can you currently treat?
[00:56:42] Speaker C: Right now we can serve up to six women in residential care, and then we have a program called partial hospitalization, and we can serve up to four in partial hospitalization.
[00:56:52] Speaker A: And then you do an annual retreat as well?
[00:56:55] Speaker C: We do.
[00:56:55] Speaker A: And how many can you can you have for that?
[00:56:57] Speaker C: We actually have one coming up next week and we have 34 attending that.
[00:57:02] Speaker A: And so some people can come to that, learn about it, and then maybe get on the waiting list.
[00:57:08] Speaker C: Yes, we always have a couple that come and recognize their need for higher level of care and we're able to work with them in that way.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, so give me a website. Tell me how to find out more.
[00:57:20] Speaker C: Absolutely. Chariscare.com c h-a r I s c a r e dot com and there's links there.
And one of the, one of my favorite things about what the Lord allows us to do is as a nonprofit, we can help people who have really good insurance plans and some who don't have any insurance at all.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: We can take some insurance.
[00:57:39] Speaker C: We can.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: And. But at the same time, you don't have, do you have some grant funding? Is there, are you, do you qualify for some federal grants or do you have anything beyond just people giving individually?
[00:57:55] Speaker C: So we have not been successful in any federal grants as of yet, but we do receive lots of grants for specific projects that we're working on. So for example, we, we got a grant to put toward the retreat that we're offering.
So there's lots of community grants that we're able to write foundational type things. Exactly.
And we are in network with the four major insurance companies.
But one of the challenges and one of the need for us to operate as a nonprofit is that Medicare and Medicaid plans almost never cover a residential level of care. And so they'll pay for you to go to the hospital, but the hospital basically is going to keep you for a day or two, stabilize your symptoms and then send you home. But that's right back into the same behaviors and sometimes even harder fall.
And so because we are the first nonprofit residential treatment center specific to eating disorder recovery in the nation, we are able to help women who have struggled for decades but have not had an insurance that would cover residential treatment for them. And so we, we offer treatment according to its actual cost, but then we're able to scholarship up to 80%.
So we are offering clinically excellent residential levels of care at fractions of the cost of what it would be anywhere else. But the most exciting part is that we do it in the name of Jesus. So we're seeing women come to saving faith in Christ. We've been able to baptize women while they're in treatment with us. But I would say that every patient Ashley spoke to just the spiritual challenges that come with that. But most of them, their relationship with Jesus is fragmented and they're hurting spiritually. And so I would say for every patient, they are restoring relationship with Christ.
[00:59:46] Speaker A: Well, we've probably understated that in this conversation because there's so much that we don't understand about eating disorders that I wanted to speak to. But as a local pastor who's seen it firsthand, that to me is the, the main thrust of what you're doing. I mean, it's certainly a ministry first.
And it's the difficult part to me is all of the other liability issues and qualifying for insurance and getting the right care and doctor coordinations and counseling. But first and foremost, that can't be overstated, that it is certainly a Christ centered biblical discipleship program that brings healing and Christian counseling into the therapeutic world.
If someone, I think of things kind of break it down to where the different people who are watching can see how they can personally get involved. Obviously they can pray, they can learn more, serve at your events if they're able to, to get to North Florida. But if someone wanted to financially support what you're doing, we've got, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that will see this program.
Some of them can do.
They, they might do a one time gift of $50.
They might can do a monthly gift of $50, $100. Others could write a check for anything that you need.
So tell me first of all, how do they do that?
[01:01:27] Speaker C: That would be such a blessing. Chariscare.com so we'll put that link right there where it says give now and you can give in every way, shape and form that's available. Even donor advised funding is.
[01:01:42] Speaker A: Can they do like a recurring gift? Is that possible?
[01:01:45] Speaker C: Yes. We have a monthly giving community. That's just incredible. Because of that community, we were able to renovate two of our bathrooms over the months of December, January and February that we wouldn't have been able to do that without our monthly giving community.
[01:01:58] Speaker A: So as a donor, as a person that we feel like we never can do all that we want to do. But how does it move the needle if someone does $50 a month toward Karis?
[01:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean we've had so many people say, yeah, well, I mean I could give $20 a month, but what's that going to do?
[01:02:19] Speaker A: That's what people feel.
[01:02:19] Speaker C: Yeah. But $20 a month alongside 100 other people's. $20 a month gets our bathroom renovated.
It enables us. We had a huge tree limb fall.
It could have been so tragic. It fell on one of the hammocks and we had to have that tree taken out. And without our monthly giving community, I mean it was thousands of dollars. So it gives us that, that nest egg that we know this is here every single month.
And we don't have to wonder like where are we going to get this amount of money. So the Lord has just used that in such a mighty way. Alongside the what we would consider major gifts. We're praying now we want to open an adolescent treatment center. We have moms and dads calling several times a week just begging us to take their teenage daughter.
And they'll say she's the most mature 16 year old you'll ever meet. But it's not legal for us to take them. And so there's such a need for an adolescent home.
That's going to cost us about $1.5 million.
[01:03:19] Speaker A: And that, that is not much. That's the kind of thing we're in North Florida. Things are incredibly expensive and 1.5 just will not get you that much. Are you putting it on the current property?
[01:03:30] Speaker C: We are.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: So you, you own the land. That helps tremendously.
[01:03:34] Speaker C: We do, Yep. We started with two acres and then the Lord two years ago gave us two acres behind us, and then last year gave us the acre next to us. So we have five acres of property.
We already have an architect working on the plans for us.
It's going to be a beautiful, state of the art facility.
So we're really excited about it. And that's $1.5 million just seems like the moon to me. I can't even fathom that. But like you've shared, people have said that there are people who could do that tomorrow. And so that's what we're praying, is that people will understand that this is not just about a nice place for a teenager to go for a month or so. This literally will save the lives of hundreds and thousands of teenagers.
It's the best $1.5 million that you could ever give because of the lives that that's going to save for teenagers and how that impacts their families for generations to come.
[01:04:34] Speaker A: Well, I hope that the people watching feel what I'm feeling and hear it from you. You communicate it really well. And so the journey that you've been through, what the enemy meant for evil, God's using it for good.
So thank you for joining me today on Code Red. And may God bless your efforts.
[01:04:57] Speaker C: Thank you so.
