Is Christ Being Benched in School Sports?

[00:00:09] Speaker A: After the first year, they said, hey, you're with FCA and you didn't talk about anything faith based. And I said, well, to protect your coach, we don't. If they make something mandatory for the team, it can't be religious in nature. They're like, well, can you? And I was like, well, you all as students with this baseball team have to take it over. And so they did. We'd meet in a classroom and Aiden was faithful to really see that through and then got to go to play at unf and now he's coaching at Liberty University. [00:00:39] Speaker B: In this episode of Code Red, we are honored to have two representatives from fca, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. They minister to both coaches and student athletes in high school settings and college settings across America. You will want to hear about this specialized, unique ministry to some of the most influential people in a young person's life. So stay tuned for this episode of Code Red. Well, I've got Andrew and Matt in studio with us today. Welcome. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks so much for having us. [00:01:22] Speaker B: These guys are both from fca and so we're going to talk about sports, we're going to talk about Christian ministry and how those two kind of intersections in your personal calling. Thinking about baseball. What about Pete Rose and getting put back in qualification for the, the hall of Fame. How do y' all feel about that? Any thoughts on it? [00:01:47] Speaker C: You would have more than I do. [00:01:49] Speaker A: So the, the first book that I ever remember reading all the way through was Pete Rose's autobiography when I was seventh or eighth grade middle school. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Is that where he kind of confessed and talked about it? [00:02:05] Speaker A: He did. And I feel like I always felt bad for the guy. [00:02:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Like just what he did wasn't right. It was against the rules, but it had no, no standing with what he did as a player. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:22] Speaker A: And so I'm like, just make him eligible as a player. Yeah, don't make him eligible as a manager or whatever else, but totally agree. Charlie Hustle, you can't take that away from him. [00:02:33] Speaker B: No, no. And then, I mean, how many other guys, you know, been through rules, broke the rules that, that are still eligible, you know, but with him, yeah, he was, he was one of, one of the all time greats. I started collecting his cards early on and have just always been a fan and so I'm pretty happy that they. And one of my first major games was Cincinnati. So that was kind of cool to experience, you know. So your, your backgrounds, you're, you're both sports guys, I'm assuming are you are you broadly sports guys. I know you're into golf. You're more baseball, is that right? [00:03:15] Speaker A: I would say, as I've aged, I still have a love for baseball, but a lot more broad. And I've actually probably become less of a fanatic of sports. Okay. The, the more my relationship with the Lord has grown, the, the more I've seen the, the idleness in my life that it could become. And so my wife is a bigger college football fan than I am. She, she can talk and discuss it a whole lot better than I can. I enjoy watching it, but when it's over, it's over and I move on to the next thing. [00:03:51] Speaker B: I, I think I'm a little older than you, but. How old are you, Andrew? [00:03:56] Speaker A: 37. [00:03:56] Speaker B: 37. I'm quite a bit older than 49, but when I was in high school, you had, you had Jordan in the NBA, Jose Canseco, Mark McGuire Baseball, and Pete Rose. You had Mike Tyson boxing. And so it was just like when that was all over, it just hasn't been the same to me. And, you know, I've gotten into UFC a little bit, but their guys have such short careers. It's hard to really follow the superstars because they don't last three or four years and they're gone, you know. So let's start with Matt. Tell us a little bit about your role and kind of what, how do you, what has God called you to do and, and why do you do it with FCA? [00:04:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I came to work with FCA back in, in 2010, and it, and it wasn't so much the fact that, that it was all about fca. Where, where I grew up in Northern Illinois, outside of Chicago, we didn't even have fca. And, and though I grew up a young athlete, played all the sports growing up, as, as I found my spot, I realized that I enjoyed the individual sports more than I did the team sports. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Oh, like what? [00:05:20] Speaker C: Golf and tennis. And although I played basketball, played, played T ball, early rounds of baseball, lots of basketball. Adam. As a Midwestern kid, I started to learn in, in middle school and high school that not everybody was willing to put in the work and the time, like I was sure. And I would find myself disappointed at times when I felt, I felt like I was given my all. But we as a team didn't perform well because not everybody else gave their all. And although I didn't grow up at a very, very young age playing the game, I was introduced to it by my dad and, and would, would, would run around the course with him on the golf cart, play tennis, volley with my parents. And I think at a young age, I gravitated toward those because I realized that whatever I was willing to put into it is what I was going to get out of it. And so I fell in love with the process. I fell in love with the grind and the practice. And I remember at a really young age, before I was old enough to have a job, in the summers, my dad would drop me off at the course on his way to work. He'd pick me up on his way home, and I fell in love with the game. And golf was really my journey up until late high school. I would say, in a lot of ways, looking back, it was my identity. And the Lord, in his very kind and gentle way, snapped me out of it with a call to ministry. And it was youth ministry to the point where I walked away from a dream and aspiration of professional golf to pursue Bible college at Moody Bible Institute, to study youth ministry fully, intending to go on and become a youth pastor. And it was while I was a student at Moody that golf was reintroduced into my life. But this time around, not as a form of competition that would flame my ego as much as it was, it was the first time I saw golf used as a tool to share the gospel. [00:07:19] Speaker B: How was it? What was your first experience of seeing golf as a ministry? [00:07:24] Speaker C: Yeah, it came in 2004 in Troon, Scotland. The British Open was held in Troon that year, and there were four mission organizations. What's that? [00:07:34] Speaker B: What a place for God. If God's going to show up on a golf course, that's what it's going to be. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Second oldest golf course that's been recorded apart from St. Andrews. And the Open Championship was held there that year. And an alum from Moody, who was far older than I was, had this lifelong dream and aspiration to leverage the Open as a ministry opportunity for the kids in the community. Wow. So he had spent years building relationships with mission organizations throughout Western Europe, bringing seven churches in the local truant community together. And what resulted was this effort of reaching 250 kids each week for two straight weeks, using the game of golf to share the gospel. [00:08:20] Speaker B: Wow. [00:08:20] Speaker C: And. And so that was my first time ever leaving the country. It was my first time ever seeing sport used as a tool for ministry. It's the first time I'd ever met youth that really weren't that much younger than I was. But you'd bring up the name of Jesus and they look at you kind of dumbfounded. Like, some of them even say, who are you talking about? And. And yet by the end of those two weeks, I was amazed that the game of golf reached the souls of individuals because it gave us the chance to share the gospel. And we saw kids give their life to Christ for the first time. And that lit something up in me that I never knew was there until that experience. Where to me, up to that point, they were two separate worlds, right? You could either walk the route of ministry or you could walk the route of sports. And so I always felt this burden that at some point I was going to have to make. Make a choice. And yet my heart's desire was, lord, how can we bring these together? And because I'd never seen it done, I just thought I had to eventually make a choice. And that experience was a game changer for me because I came back and I said, I don't know what that looks like in America, but that's what I want to do with my life. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Right? [00:09:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:34] Speaker B: I think when I think about, like, the Apostle Paul, sometime in his life, from what we can piece together through all of his writing, at some time, he was a Pharisee. He was a Hebrew of Hebrews. He was a Pharisee. He would not have been allowed to have watched the Greek sports as a Jewish kid. That was very clear from everything that we have record of. But he apparently, that was kind of his kind of hang up for as a. As a little Hebrew, because the Greeks competed in the nude, so the Jews would not allow their kids to watch sports. But you see, over and over in his writing, he was a fan of sports. [00:10:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:10:20] Speaker B: You know, talks about boxing, wrestling, racing, you name it. He was an avid sports fan. And when people think about the heroes of the faith and they think about, you know, Paul the Apostle, they don't think of a guy eating popcorn in the stands, really. But when he talked about, therefore, since we've also been surrounded with so great a cloud of witnesses, that was a Coliseum reference, you know, to the sports fans watching the gladiators or whoever it was competing. And so over and over again, I would love to in heaven one day I hope to talk to him and just say, tell me about that. Where did all that come from? But I found that there's just something in humanity that resonates with sports. I think it's interesting. You liked the sports where you're competing against yourself. Was that part of it? Was it more, I'm trying for my personal best on this course or improving my game? Or was There a competition element to it in golf. [00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah, you're spot on. I mean, I think at a young age I loved the idea of competing against myself to see how good I could become. And what started simply as a physical thing in sports, it certainly transcended into my life in, in. In realizing that I, left to myself, did not have everything that it took to live the life that God was calling me to live as a human being. And so just as I was pursuing, becoming a better player, which led to pursuing, becoming a PGA professional, even post college, it all culminated for me in also realizing that I couldn't do any of this apart from the Lord's help. And so what was. Was initially a very much sports driven endeavor for me really became a. A means in, in just God's own way and kindness, where I feel like I, I grew a lot as an individual who was forced to rely upon him, learn a lot more about myself, realizing that the best place I could learn about myself was by actually consulting my maker. And a lot of that for me happened on the golf course in my own head, in my own heart, through prayer. I remember at one point really leaning into scriptures to secure my own identity when things wouldn't go the way that I desired them to. Because golf's a really vicious game from a mental standpoint. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Mental? Yeah. Psychological, yes. It's. It's a head game. And if you don't have something to kind of be your ballast through that, you know, it's. It could be a dangerous game. People have really, you know, gotten in a bad place emotionally and mentally in that game. If they don't have something to keep them, keep them, keep it real, you know, Andrew, I know a little more about you, but our audience may not. So I want to know, like, what, what brought you into this ministry? [00:13:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I got involved with sports ministry as a high schooler. The, the church that I was attending growing up had a sports recreation ministry section. And so they did basketball camps, soccer camps, tennis camps in the summer. And the lady who ran that kind of drew me in and said, hey, I want you to come work for us. And so what age were you? I was 17. Okay. And did that in the summers, obviously, playing baseball in the. During the school year. I would do stuff here and there. They ran upward. And where was that? Up in Knoxville, Tennessee. So we had an upward soccer league, upward basketball league. And I think God was drawing me in even before I would say that I was a believer. I grew up around the faith. I had grandfathers who were pastors uncles who were pastors and really was like, no, I'm not. Not getting into that. And, you know, made a profession of faith when I was 9, but really didn't know who. I knew a lot about the Lord, but I didn't know who the Lord was until I was 19. And the Lord just kind of shielded me from a lot of things by working and recreation, volunteering in youth. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Because. [00:14:55] Speaker A: I could say the right things. People. [00:14:57] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:58] Speaker A: People were fools. [00:14:59] Speaker B: In the south, that's easy to do. [00:15:01] Speaker A: It is. [00:15:01] Speaker B: There's so much culture there, and I think that's something that people from up north may not fully understand or appreciate, is that people give you the benefit of the doubt that, oh, you go to church, you've been to church, you must be a Christian in the South. You know, I grew up in North Alabama, not far from where you were at. And sports can be an idol in any region. But in that region, it really went to a different level. It seems like to me. On the bright side, I don't know of a more influential person in a high school than the coach. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Have you found that. Did a co. What. What? Coaches made an impact on you? I don't. I don't even have to ask if they did. I'm presuming coaches made an impact on you. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Every coach makes an impact. It's whether that impact is positive or negative. I could tell you stories of coaches who impacted me in a positive way and stories of coaches who impacted me in a negative way. A really cool thing that happened to me a few years ago is I had a reason to call my head coach, and I thought, he's not going to remember me. This is 15 years later. This is. I was. I was a sophomore the year he took over as a head coach. Been uber successful, Won a ton of state titles. I'm like, I was. I was a nobody on one of his first teams and called him because he was potentially going to play a team from Jacksonville that I had relationship with that coach. And the first thing he said was, tell me about your family. Like, he didn't want to talk baseball. And I was like, I was shocked. Did he impact me as a youth? Yeah. I mean, he helped instill discipline. He did everything a coach does, what we say within FCA in that first dimension. He coached the physical part of sport. I never saw the, I want to build a better man necessarily out of him, but it was cool to call him and him go, what are you doing in life? Oh, you're working for fca. I've gotten to know the FCA person in Knoxville. Tell me about your family. Do you have kids? Tell me about your wife. So it's fun to experience that on this side of it when we might not experience it when we're in the middle of it. [00:17:34] Speaker B: I think a lot of coaches, we discover it. I didn't realize it. I don't think they realize it. But we've discovered that there's a lot of similarities between local church pastor and a high school football coach in that everybody kind of feels like we work directly for them and they're all expecting us to accomplish certain things. Like the high school football coach, I expect my kid to get so much playing time and him to reach these certain goals. It may be a particular ministry or whatever for the pastor. But, yeah, when we get together, like when I meet those guys and we connect, it's always like, oh, yeah, we can cry on each other's shoulder pretty easy because there's a lot of similarities. But also, I think just the idea that especially in a small town where church and sports was a big deal, we're going to run into everybody at Walmart or Target or whatever it might be, and you want to know, for that player, a decade later, you run into them, you want it to be a pleasant thing. You don't want it to be bad blood or hated that guy. The same with a pastor. You want to make an impact on a person, but you also just want to have that human relationship that 10 years from now, it's not going to be weird, but the impact. You take the principal, you take the teachers, there's something about the angle of a coach that has impact in that kid's life that's truly unique. Did you have any particular coaches that impacted you? [00:19:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker A: What. [00:19:21] Speaker C: What's fascinating to me as I look back on my journey were. Were the men that God put in my life that were golf professionals that weren't walking with him, but taught me at a young age that golf could be a game that allowed you the chance to give back to somebody else. And the reason I say that is, is I had a couple instructors at a young age that although they helped me become a better player, it was abundantly apparent. Their first and foremost concern is how could they help me become a better human being, a better. A better son in my house, a better student at school, a better friend on the golf course or in the hallways at school. And for whatever reason, it just. It jumped out at me. These people cared about my heart before they cared about my physical ability. And it left a lasting impression on me that to me, I felt obligated to pass on at a young age. And so I took an interest in teaching and coaching at a young age for those who are much younger than me because of the way I had been taught and coached myself. [00:20:29] Speaker B: What was it about growing up in the south, in Northern Alabama, fca, I think from maybe junior high up was a thing. You know, it, it was. We would, we would probably have, in a very small school, we would probably have 250 kids in the FCA rally. You know, at 7:30 in the morning, it was, everybody went. I don't know who didn't go to the FCA rally. It was a big deal where we were from. So I know what would have caused me to have been interested in fca. And I used to speak at FCA events. I never was a big athlete, but it was just that big a deal. They needed speakers. You know, what drew you guys into fca? And maybe, maybe start out by just telling us what is fca for those who don't know. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you wanna start? [00:21:20] Speaker C: I'll be happy to. [00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead. [00:21:22] Speaker C: So let's talk about what, what FCA is. I love when people ask this question because it's a chance for us to walk through our vision, our mission, our strategies, our values. And, and usually I like to walk through it through, through just questions, you know. So your question was, what is fca? I like telling people what, what we do is lead coaches and athletes into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and his church. That. That is the mission of fca, to lead coaches and athletes, every coach and athlete, into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and his church. There are a few things to me that are significant about that. And first is the word every. We don't just say that, we mean it. We are pursuing every coach and athlete because we believe that God has commissioned us through the Great Commission, to go and make disciples to the very ends of the earth. And so as you were already articulating there, there's this, this inherent influence that exists in the life of an athlete or a coach that allows them, when they understand that influence, to actually be an incredibly strategic disciple maker. And so for us, we desire to lead coaches and athletes in order that they can go lead other coaches and athletes in what it means to be a believer. So what we do is our mission. Why we do it is our vision. And that's to see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes. And the reason that I Love our vision is. It's what fuels our mission. I don't know many people that would disagree with the fact that coaches and athletes today are some of the most influential people in our culture all around the world. And when you look at America just in and of itself, there are 50 million plus kids that will play sport at some level just this year. [00:23:15] Speaker B: How many? [00:23:15] Speaker C: 50 million. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Wow. [00:23:17] Speaker C: Kids. And so we're not even talking about the siblings that are going to be off on the side watching practice or in the stands for with their parents or on the sidelines of the field on a Saturday. And you just pause and you think about the number. I can't wrap my head around 50 million, let alone those who come to spectate and watch. And you think about the fact that all of those participants are going to walk away being impacted like Andrew's talking about, for the better or unfortunately for the worse, one of the two. And really, at the end of the day, that hinges on the shoulders of a coach. [00:23:59] Speaker B: It's one of the few places in our culture where people come together in a live setting and something's happening that they're watching, but they also have an opportunity to chat a little bit. So I don't know the stats on it. I probably should do an informal survey. But if I had to guess at the number of people who've joined our church and Andrew and I are in the same church, the number of people who've joined our church, especially under maybe the age of 50, the vast majority of those had their first interaction with our congregation at a sports event. So soccer, baseball, football. And they're in the stands and dads are at that age that they're beginning to think, okay, I'm a dad. I need to take some responsibility for my family, for my kid. He's aware of that in a football game or in a baseball game, soccer game. And people are talking about things that have gone on at church. So dad start, you know, just. It's on their radar. And so hey man, where do you go to church at? And if there's somebody in that stand that can represent us or a coach, I more than anything, if I can get our pastors volunteering as coaches, we've got Josh Wood right now. Josh volunteers all the time. [00:25:27] Speaker A: I laughed. I saw him in an umpire uniform the other day. [00:25:29] Speaker B: He's umpiring. [00:25:30] Speaker A: That doesn't look right. [00:25:31] Speaker B: I don't know if that's a good idea because you can kind of hate on the umpire a little bit, but, but, but anytime we can get those Guys out at the field, just be there. The conversation's taking place either way. And if you can speak for the Lord, speak for our church, you're going to reach people inevitably, because it's just the cultural phenomenon, water runs downhill. I think it was Moody who said that. D.L. moody said he was speaking to one of the forerunners between him and Graham, Billy Graham, and he said, water runs downhill when the mountain, the valley, will take care of itself and the speaking of influence. So if you can. If you can reach, for better or for worse, I was not a great athlete. I was happy to be on the team, so this is not me. But if you can reach the quarterback, the pitcher, if you can reach the key positions, head cheerleader, volleyball, whatever it is, if you can reach those key positions, they do have an undue amount of influence, and it does. If you reach them, a lot of people are following them, for, you know, better or worse. And if we can reach those kids and bring them in and disciple them. You'll disciple teams and fans as a byproduct of that. [00:26:53] Speaker C: That's right. [00:26:54] Speaker B: You know, so it's a strategic ministry that is specialized and equipped to make that happen, as well as the coaches. [00:27:04] Speaker A: You know, speaking of Billy Graham, you know, probably the first thing that was said to me about coaches and ministry when I. When I was investigating FCA was Billy Graham made the comment, a coach will impact more people in one season than most people will in a lifetime. [00:27:23] Speaker B: Wow. [00:27:24] Speaker A: And not that he's discrediting pastors or other positions of influence, but the. The amount of time that coaches. And I don't even know what year he made that comment, but sports has only gotten more and more, More and more of the schedule, of people's schedule. [00:27:47] Speaker B: So just by sheer time. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Time, they get to. They get to influence. They get to. To shape and mold young men, young women by whatever they're coaching, whatever they're talking about, whatever they allow to happen within their programs, those coaches are shaping. [00:28:07] Speaker B: What. What is the strategy of FCA to step into that environment, build a relationship and influence? [00:28:14] Speaker A: Yeah, our ministry strategy, we call it E3, which is Engage, equip, empower. And so we want to engage coaches and athletes wherever they are. You know, some. Some of our best ministry happens where coaches are most comfortable. It's in there. It's in their office. It's in the weight room. It's. It's on the field. You text them, you call them, you don't get them. You go by the school and come. Come spend a couple hours with Me, I remember talking to Yuli High School's football coach the Thursday before they go to a state championship with Derek Henry on the team. And he comes over to the sideline and talks to me and I'm like, shouldn't you be coaching right now? And he's like, no. My system coaches had, they knew they were just going to hand the ball to Derek, right? But he genuinely just wanted to spend time with me and just, I don't remember what we talked about. He probably doesn't remember what we talked about. But we still have a relationship to this day because we showed up. And that's that engagement factor of hey, let's build the relationship and speak truth into their life as they, if they're not a believer, encourage them with scripture and give them just little nuggets to think about. If they're already a believer then hey, how do we move to equipping them? How do we create coaches? Bible studies where they're able to encourage each other, they're getting in the word and going, hey, I'm struggling with xyz. Coaches don't get out of coaching because they lose the love of the game. They get out of coaching because administration makes it hard for them, parents make it hard for them. And so coaches can come together and go man, we're struggling through this. How, how, how does my being a Christian influence that? How can I speak into to those areas of, of coaches lives and hopefully allow them to be empowered to go complete the circle again? What coach do I need to engage? Whether it's on my staff, at my school, at the, the Babe Ruth field, at the Pop Warner field, what coach do I have relationship with that I need to go engage and make sure that they're in a relationship with the Lord and create a disciple making model out of that. [00:30:41] Speaker B: How many schools currently are you serving? [00:30:45] Speaker A: Currently between public and private schools, I have 14 schools in my two counties that I serve. [00:30:51] Speaker B: And if you've been in the same region, most of your ministry, that is. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Kind of a trick question. I was hired back in 2012 for the Nassau county and Baker county area. Within about 18 months I had 70 schools. I was responsible for anything north or west of the St. Johns river in our northeast Florida area. And new president came in and said, hey, we're killing our staff, our turnover rate is way too high. We need to shrink areas of responsibility. So what I was covering from a ministry perspective, being in schools, doing ministry day in, day out, only thinking about volunteers and students and coaches has turned into now those 14 schools, the five communities that make up the two counties. I get to serve as the director and say, hey, how do we develop a board for the area? How do we develop a donor base for the area? How do we develop staff for the area to reach every. Because when I started, it was campuses. [00:32:01] Speaker B: What year did that change? [00:32:03] Speaker A: 2018. [00:32:04] Speaker C: 2018. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I could. I could tell from when we first got here eight years ago to now. I didn't know how you're. I didn't know that about your role changing, but. But I did know that the impact of FCA got better. And so I've witnessed that. I've had kids in the program, I've had kids in the schools, and so I've witnessed that. That, you know, it's. It's. I don't know about quantity as much as quality, but, you know, it's become more of a part of, like, Caitlin's life versus where it was at with Carly and Cole. And they were more athletic than Caitlin was. So that's been. That's been cool to just witness. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Cole did not have a good experience. [00:32:48] Speaker B: I gotta tell you. Cole, he's a great guitar player. He's a great guitar player, but he. He wanted to be a great athlete, but he's like his dad now. His mom was. I met her. She was a college volleyball player. So I'll tell you that story in a minute. But Cole took after his dad. He played guitar and, you know, that was it. But he would run. He would run track, and he'd probably kill me for telling this, but he said he was really trying to. I think I'm gonna do it one more year. I'm like, Cole, look, man, God, you don't have to do this. You know, there's some things we're good at, some things we're not good at. He's like, what makes you think I'm not good at track? Like Cole, the school for the deaf and blind beat you at the last track meet. And he's like, dad, they can't hear or see. Their legs are fine. They were run, man. Like, Cole, buddy, look. So eventually, he kind of embraced it and said, look, I'm just going to lean into guitar and not. Not do the athletic thing. But. But it was still nevertheless great. Coaches had a positive impact. And, you know, I would tell parents, every parent, if their kid has any inkling of wanting to try sport, they should try it, at least to see if, I mean, they learn cooperation, teamwork. So much that kids develop and learn through that, that I Don't know how they would learn any other way. And to this day, some of his friends, he had one buddy who went on to be a very good baseball player from Alabama. And they're both today kind of pursuing the music thing, moving to Nashville and riding and doing all that. So it's kind of cool to watch how that's evolved. You know, with the number of schools you mentioned Derek Henry, have there been others that have gone on? Because I think in the back of every dad's mind is my kid might be the next Derek Henry or whoever. Whoever it is. Statistically, that's probably not the case for most of them. [00:34:58] Speaker A: Statistically, Yeah. I mean, from. From Nassau County, Derek Henry is. He's it probably once in a while. Ever. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Type of thing. [00:35:08] Speaker B: We've got PO with. With a. Skating to the Olympics. [00:35:11] Speaker A: But yeah, I've gotten to develop some relationships with some. Some great kids that they go off and play. One of my favorites is from. I can't remember if he's Cole's age or not, but Aiden Sweat, who was faithful, a coach said, hey, we're going to do a team character study. And Aiden was a freshman when that started and he was faithful not only to say, hey, we're going to continue this, but after the first year, they said, hey, you're with fca and you didn't talk about anything faith based. And I said, well, to protect your coach, we don't. If they make something mandatory for the team, it can't be religious in nature. So I didn't. They're like, well, can you. And I was like, well, you all as students with this baseball team have to take it over. And so they did. Coach removed himself. The students took ownership of it and they would bring donuts in and stuff in the mornings and we'd meet in a classroom. And Aiden was faithful to really see that through. And then got to go to play at unf and now he's coaching at Liberty University, graduate assistant. So very cool. Yeah. [00:36:29] Speaker B: I think back on over the years as a student pastor. So my first several years, maybe first decade of ministry, a lot of it was student ministry. And you would see these kids that would come up that were getting extra coaching, extra training. Their dad was paying for it. Mom and dad were paying for it. They were doing travel ball, school ball, anything you can do. And I'm thinking baseball in particular. One kid in particular, I think he went on to play for the Brewers. His name was Donovan Hand. He was in my youth group. I was a pitcher for the Brewers. And I remember that dilemma that you have as a pastor. I'm sure his dad went through it. Coach. Because knowing how do you discern between is this an idol that I'm serving or is this just being a good businessman preparing for what's going to be a career one day? Any thoughts on that from you guys? Of. Because we're very optimistic about our kids and we think they can change the world. We think that they can go pro or whatever it might be in a lot of communities, that's the way out. You know, professional sports. Is there any wisdom in discerning? I think as a pastor, I learned with Donovan, yeah, some of them do have a chance and it's not that the rules don't apply to them, but I do think, yeah, they're going to be a little more engaged in the sport than the average kid, the average person. But I've never felt like I've heard a really good insight into how to discern that or how to support a family that's. This may be taking it too far. Any thoughts on that or have you witnessed that in your careers? [00:38:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:39] Speaker A: It'S a great question that I would say. You go to Proverbs and there's wisdom and counsel. Don't make choices on your own. Bring people into it and not people that are just going to tell you what you want to hear. There's the rub of, hey, who's the guy that has to work really hard to make it professionally? Because there's plenty of stories out there that that's the case. Talking to a coach that played 13 years in the big leagues, won a couple state champions at championships at bowls, coached a couple guys that are playing in the major leagues. He goes, it's different. Like you, I knew that those guys had a chance when they were in high school. And so there is this rub of like, hey, it's just different. And, you know, this guy's got a chance versus, hey, this guy's got to work really hard. But statistically it's probably not going to work out for somebody even to make it to college, much less past that. And so surround yourself with people that aren't trying to make a buck off of you by lessons. Surround yourself with people who will pray with you and pray for you and be willing to share hard things that you may not want to hear. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that too, just knowing that you guys are there, you know, Christian ministers are there in the locker rooms, on the fields, just to. When we can feel as pastors sometimes like they're running from us that to know that you guys are going to be there when they get where they're going and keep the main thing. The main thing. And there's so many principles. I remember the year that I did a lot of work with fca. The audience of one was the big slogan that year. And those kids understanding that, you know, it's not like Jesus and God are for church. And then you have baseball, you have football, whatever it might be. But, but, but you can compete and you can grow in your sport for the Lord. [00:41:12] Speaker C: That's right. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Any thoughts on that? [00:41:14] Speaker C: Yeah, interestingly enough. And please chime in our theme. We have an annual theme. And you just brought up one from, from many years back. Audience of one. This year's. [00:41:23] Speaker B: I love the T shirts that way, by the way. [00:41:25] Speaker C: They're tremendous, aren't they? Yeah. The one this year is glory. It's the word glory, but it's this whole idea of how do we take a coach or an athlete on a journey that any fallen human is going to go through? And it's simply one of doing things for your own glory. And in God's sanctifying process, coming to this place and point where you realize I exist simply to glorify him, it's all for his glory. And so, you know, I hear your question a few minutes ago and I think of it from a parent standpoint, like, I made plenty of mistakes as a kid in terms of placing my sport in front of me as an idol. My best days were my greatest rounds of golf and the days that weren't great, I felt like trash because sports or golf in particular is who I was. It wasn't what I. What I was was gifted to do. In my mind, I made it my idol. And so I think about even the way that I'm trying to help my kids process their activities today. And it's. And it's subtle things like constantly asking the question, why are you doing this? Really why? Right. And let's dig in and talk about that. The subtle phrase that hit me square between the eyes that I already mentioned, that I often use now with, with a lot of coaches or athletes is this idea of sport isn't who I am, it's something I get to do. Right. And there's a big difference. And so how do we just keep a personal conversation going on with coaches and with athletes to help them realize that what you're doing is something God intended you to do, but he never intended it to become your number one thing. [00:43:09] Speaker B: Right. I remember David Nassar said one time, you know who David Nassar is? David was the chaplain or the leader of the chapel at Liberty recently. He was a great, great evangelist. But David was talking to a young man who had very clearly kind of said, I'm going to put God on the side, and I'm going to pursue sports. All in. All in. Absolutely, all in. And David challenged him on it, and he said, because the young man was dealing with a call to ministry at the same time. And he was saying, you know, you're confident God's calling you, right? And he said, yeah, he said, I'm confident. He said, well, buddy, you really need to balance out your life so that, yeah, give it your best with sports, but at the same time, you really need to be in youth group. You know, you need to be in church on Sundays. If this is what you're going to do with your life, you need to balance this. Well, like happens sometimes. Dad got upset. Dad came to talk to David, and he said, you know, this kid could go pro. This kid could get a scholarship. This kid could. And he said, if the kid can do it, the kid should do it. And David said, I don't know that I can agree with you there, because there's a lot of things I can do. I have the capacity to do, good or bad. I could go out and get drunk. Does that mean I should go out and get drunk? You know, there's a lot of things that I have the capacity to do, but that is no indication that God wants me to go do it. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Wasn't it Paul that said all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable? [00:44:48] Speaker C: Right. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I just think that I don't see it even as much in the kids. Making an idol of it is sometimes to do with dads. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Sure. [00:44:59] Speaker B: You know, Dad's really struggling with wanting to relive their childhood through that kid, you know, and hit the grand slam he wish he had hit or whatever. And, you know, I would just challenge our dads watching. Don't sacrifice your kid on that altar. You know, God has great intentions for him or her. And if he is meant by the Lord to be used in that capacity, then the Lord will take him there. I think we're fortunate to have somebody like Tim Tebow locally that we can look at and go, man, that's a guy who was just as committed to his local church. He was faithful, he worked hard, and God platformed him when it was time. But he didn't have to sacrifice his walk with the Lord or his ministry. In order to achieve that platform, when. [00:45:53] Speaker A: We do it for the glory of the Lord, it should look different. Not necessarily from just a Christian perspective, but when we work in such a way that we honor the Lord, it's going to just look different. And the Lord will honor that in some ways. But the statistics would show. This is what came to mind when you started talking about parents or dads trying to live vicariously through their kid is there's a burnout age at about 12. And that's when things really kind of start to intensify with these sports. Specific challenges. Hey, I got to specialize in this or I've got to specialize in that. And when kids are interviewed about their sport experience, the car ride home is the worst part of it. You get in. You get in the car and obviously thinking, baseball, hey, why? You're over three with three strikeouts, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're just. It's like, hey, dad, why can't you just be a dad and say, I enjoyed watching you play today? [00:47:07] Speaker B: Yeah, man, that brings back some memories of both as a kid, you know, seeing some dads at the field and then times when I was the dad. And, you know, just thinking that car ride home is so important, you know, whether. Whether it's a little dancer or whether it's a baseball player or whatever. It seems like that's just. Just a sensitive time, that they're. They're. They're kind of vulnerable and. And they need you to be. You're right. They need you to be a dad during that. During that time. In recent days, something new has been kind of brought into the equation, and that is pay for play and, you know, the potential of college athletes. And does it go down to high school? Are we seeing any high schoolers that are getting sports or like. Like sponsorships now and being funded? [00:48:00] Speaker A: Not. Not in our area that we know of. It's definitely happening. You know, being from Tennessee and being a Tennessee fan, I saw that Tennessee kind of preemptively wrote some legislation in with the House committee decision getting ready to come down, and they preemptively said, hey, we're going to get ahead of this and make sure that Tennessee players are protected, I think, at the high school level and the collegiate level, but as far as locally, I don't. [00:48:33] Speaker B: How do you think that'll affect the game? How do you. Because it's easy enough to make, like we said, kind of an idol out of sports anyway. Do you think. Is it. And, you know, put all my cards on the Table. I don't know which side to take on it because there's part of me that doesn't think it's right for a school to. To financially benefit off of a child's performance and the child not getting any benefit from it. So I totally get that. But I'm not in the world enough to have a really strong opinion. Do you guys have strong opinions about it or what are your thoughts? [00:49:15] Speaker C: The only opinion that I have on it is just seeing the love of the game get eclipsed by the transaction of the deal. And that just saddens me. I think it's going to be harder to keep the game fun the more it becomes about transactions and business. [00:49:40] Speaker B: I could see that. [00:49:44] Speaker C: At the end of the day, sports is really about recreation and there and there. And there's a beauty about the recreation that can be found in competition. And yet recreation is something that's meant to give us life as we give ourselves to the competition. Right. And. And I think it's, it's stealing a lot of that essence. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Do you, do you find, do you find kids when they're approaching graduation? Is that on their radar now? Are they thinking, just hoping they qualify for a scholarship? Where does it play into? At what age does it become kind of a conversation? Man. [00:50:35] Speaker A: Thinking back to my story, the state champion my senior year was our rival high school that we beat four times. Like, in my mind, like we should have been state champions that year. We lost a game to a team that we really had no business losing to. And I remember sitting with my best friend to this day in the outfield going, what's next? Neither of us were going to college to play. I was just good enough to stay on the team because I had hurt my arm and the doctor told me to not throw for a year. And I was like, I'm not good enough for that. Like, I gotta, gotta muscle through this and keep playing. And we were just sitting there and it's like, no more practices, no more games, no more workouts. Our friend group is kind of gone now because our team is gone. I don't know that people talk about it all that much now. I don't know that people let themselves get vulnerable enough to. To share those things with a lot of people. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it is interesting. We. I went back, let's see, graduated in 94, so went back to my reunion this year and, and the best athletes, most of them were in very bad shape physically because of the aches and pains that came back to haunt them. A few of them went on to be coaches. And they're serving in that. In that capacity now. It's just interesting to watch the way that it can become such a part of a person's life at an early age. And I can't help but think, add money to that, it's going to kind of throw fuel on the fire. You know, if everything goes well, an FCA is a raging success in this northeast Florida region in five years. What does that mean? Like, what would that look like? If you guys hit all your marks and you accomplish five year goals, what would that look like? [00:52:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say, I mean, for starters, our staff gets a lot larger than it is right now. How large is it? Praise God, we have a staff of 23 people. [00:53:05] Speaker B: And what does that cover? [00:53:06] Speaker C: But that covers a greater, Greater Jacksonville area, five counties of Nassau, Baker, Duval, Clay and St. John's counties. And the reason I say staff doubling is because really the answer to all this is discipleship. I mean, at the end of the day, we talk E3 engage equipment and power. To us, those are three key words to remember the Great Commission and discipleship in action. Right. And if coaches and athletes truly inherent they have influence, teaching them how to use that God given influence is really, it's our strategy, it's our goal. And so we just need a bigger army to go and do that. But inherent in that too, the result of that, and feel free to jump in and speak to that. I think in a lot of ways it's the redemption of sports. It's the movement of glory being found in the sport itself and the idol that we make out of it to actually helping people come to a place and a purpose of no, God gave you this to enjoy. And it actually is a way that you can glorify him by giving him your competition, by giving your all to something that he's gladly given you to enjoy. And really just helping people understand it for what it really is. Not the idol that all of us as fallen people will turn it in left to ourselves. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Have you as fca and I should have researched this, but has fca, how has it approached the transgender issue? Has it kind of stayed on the sidelines? Has it got engaged in that issue? That seems kind of tricky. I mean, it seems clear, but it seems like at the same time two schools may approach it totally different. How has the greater FCA movement approached it? Have we had any issues locally that you want to speak to? [00:55:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say what we've done is maintained a very biblical approach from the standpoint of how God has made male and female. And so all of our decision making comes from the fact that God created two genders, male and female. And so we always go back to the Bible. And yet, because that is a reality in our world today, what we're not going to do is say that those who identify as something else aren't welcome. But what we aren't going to do is allow somebody to step into a role of leadership or representation on behalf of the ministry that can't align with what we as biblical believers throughout history have believed. And so that is where we draw a line. But at the end of the day, our ministry is every. And so we want those people to be welcome in our huddles, welcome even at our camps. But there's going to be a level of understanding of this is what we're asking of you when you're here. [00:56:09] Speaker B: But if somebody wanted to be on your staff, that would be an issue, correct? Yeah, I think a similar approach that the church would have. You know, we hope that people from alternative lifestyles that have been influenced by that movement hope they would feel welcome to attend our church. But, yeah, that's not going to. We're not going to modify our messaging because of that and certainly aren't going to endorse what it is that they're doing. Is that a big issue here? I've not heard locally of a lot of things going on in that world. [00:56:45] Speaker A: Transgenderism? No. [00:56:47] Speaker B: And in sports in particular. [00:56:49] Speaker A: In sports, no. Throughout, you know, my 13 years with FCA, there have been times where. [00:56:59] Speaker C: Different. [00:57:00] Speaker A: Coaches have said, hey, I want to be involved. I want to be your campus sponsor, but they are involved in a gay lifestyle or relationship. And so we have to have that conversation with them of, hey, here's, here's what our standard is. Here's what we believe scripture lays out for us. So, you know, we can't allow you to participate as a leader with us, but we hope that you would still come and be encouraged. And then, you know, we've put systems and processes in place really, over the last 18 months or so to make sure that all of our volunteers, whether it be student leaders or coaches or campus leader, whoever that is, agrees with what our statement of faith and what we call our Christian community statement lays out for leadership with FCA. [00:57:58] Speaker B: Well, I can say, you know, 30, almost 30 years of ministry, and from the very beginning, I've known of FCA and followed what FCA is doing. I don't remember ever hearing of any scandalous reports of FCA that it's Always stayed above board. It's always kept clean. Not to say that there aren't centers involved, that's always the case. But kudos to the organization as a whole for maintaining just a good reputation. If someone is watching this and they say I would like to engage with fca, I love sports, I coach or I used to coach. How do they go about just plugging in and supporting what you're doing? [00:58:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean reaching out to, to one of us. Andrew bakerca.org is my email going to our website. Either Nassau county fca.org or northeast floridafca.org would be probably the easiest way. [00:59:02] Speaker B: And there are opportunities to volunteer. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Definitely opportunities to volunteer. Definitely opportunities for staff. And when we say every just to 30000 foot view, I mean that's youth sports leagues and clubs. Not only supporting leagues and clubs that already exist, but creating FCA run leagues and clubs. That's one of my responsibilities. We have a. [00:59:30] Speaker B: In what sport? [00:59:30] Speaker A: 7:17 baseball club in Jacksonville with two of our own fields that we get to play out of and they compete with. With FCA on the jersey. [00:59:44] Speaker B: You've, you've. That's a goal or you already have that? [00:59:46] Speaker A: We already have that in place. [00:59:47] Speaker B: For how many teams do you have? [00:59:49] Speaker A: Seven, I believe. [00:59:50] Speaker B: Oh that's, that's excellent. [00:59:51] Speaker A: So seven year olds to 14 year olds. [00:59:54] Speaker B: Very cool. [00:59:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:55] Speaker B: Where do they weather the fields? [00:59:57] Speaker A: Where are they at Southside and Phillips highway there's a Hodges Mazda dealership that pretty much right at that intersection and they sit behind that. Hodges Mazda dealership. [01:00:10] Speaker B: I'm thinking that new land out on 17. [01:00:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:12] Speaker B: You know there's some space for that because it's, you're not, you know, you're not eternally purposing the land. If you want to make it a baseball field, you know, for a short time you can do that. You know. [01:00:22] Speaker A: So the talking about redemption of sports, I mean that's, that's a great way to, to start. So if, if you're a baseball coach, if you're a softball coach, a volleyball coach, you name the sport. There's equestrian competing in the name of fca. There's ministry in basically every sport you can think of. FCA wants to reach and we call it FCA for life. So five years old when you really kind of. My five year old just kind of got into to sports, soccer and baseball. To the 80 year old pickleball player. You're an athlete. You're an athlete. [01:01:01] Speaker B: We've got a couple of connections with people who are chaplains for like professional teams for Olympic sports, that sort of thing. So they have. They have relationships with people who are very successful in athletics. Do you have ways for those guys to serve? I would think if you have a Christian who's very, you know, pro golfer, that's a believer, baseball, whatever it might be, do you have opportunities for them to come in and share a testimony or to be involved in what we're doing? [01:01:32] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. We. We often. We often will feed those people who have a testimony to share into some of our local teams or alongside some of our coaches when the opportunity is right to share with the team. I would say one of the. One of the most strategic volunteer roles that we have in the ministry is something we call a character coach, which is an individual who comes alongside a team for an entire season. And in the past, they may have been identified as a chaplain, but because the local public schools would not endorse or allow for somebody to come alongside on a coaching staff to teach the Bible or Christianity, what they will endorse is somebody who would come along and teach character and just virtue. Right. And so when a coach has practice and for the final five, 10 minutes, brings the character coach up front to teach a lesson on integrity or to teach a lesson on respect, he can. He or she can have that whole team present for that talk and then can also say, hey, practice is done. But. But Johnny, our character coach here, for those of you who want to stick around for another 10 minutes, Johnny would love to introduce you to the person who. Who had perfect integrity, and now it's a volunteer kind of thing. And that character coach can spend as much time as those students want who have volunteered to stick around and learn more. [01:02:55] Speaker B: The loophole that we always exploited back in the day was we could have voluntary assemblies, whether it be fca, we would work with whatever group we could get in with, but voluntary assemblies. But we always ask them, can we do it during, like, third period? Who's not going to come to the voluntary assembly? It could be on basket weaving. And you get out of third period to come do it, we'll do it, you know, so there's some really interesting ways that the Lord is keeping a witness in the public schools, you know, and you guys are a big part of that. Are there any things that you're seeing right now that you would look at on the landscape of sports and see evidence of God working in a unique way? Are there any players that you say, man, not to shine the spotlight on anybody in particular, but to kind of say, yeah, be Praying for him or her. Are there any areas that just kind of has your attention of you think the Lord's doing something there? I'm thinking about like even Auburn, the baptisms that we've heard about coming out of college campuses. What are you hearing? Talk to us about what the Lord's doing in sports at large. [01:04:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, even, even as you were just talking, I'm thinking about yesterday, Scottie Scheffler winning the PGA Championship and in his, in his post round, post championship interview, I mean, he's the number one player in the world. This is what, second or third major he's talking about. His greatest desire is to learn how to glorify the Lord in the way that he plays the game. How can't you want to root for this guy? [01:04:31] Speaker B: Well, that, and you know, someone along the way has taught him to think a certain way so that, hey man, you're successful, you do well at what you do. There's going to be a microphone in front of you. That's an opportunity. And he's put some thought into that. You know, nobody accidentally goes, oh yeah, well, you know, I want to glorify Jesus. [01:04:56] Speaker C: Right? [01:04:57] Speaker B: That's premeditated, no doubt. [01:04:59] Speaker C: Yeah, no doubt. But he's special in terms of when you look at the field of athletics in the golf world, he's a great witness. I mean, we've seen an incredible move in the ministry just this past year amongst college athletes and just a, what I would just call simply a seeking and yearning of the truth. [01:05:25] Speaker B: How does it manifest? [01:05:26] Speaker C: What do you, I would say the, the community of college athletes that is being built across greater Jacksonville because FCA has been there to help facilitate. I mean, it's a movement of God. It's, it's a spirit led initiative. But there are people in the name of FCA that are there to help cultivate that and to help pour in to these athletes. [01:05:50] Speaker B: Are there like numbers and gatherings going up? Is it intensity? Like what are you seeing? [01:05:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I would, I would say the, the, the gatherings have, have, have increased in quantity, but also in, in, in, in quantity and in quantity quality and in quantity meaning more often. But also those, those, those groups that are gathering, they're just larger when they gather. Our director of the collegiate ministry brought all of these athletes together from all the different schools before the school year was done for a first ever, what he called a college night. And to see all these athletes come together in the name of Christ was thrilling. But it shows you, even in our local world, some of our greatest athletes in their 20s are still yearning for something more. [01:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah, you never get past that. [01:06:41] Speaker C: Always beyond yourself. [01:06:43] Speaker B: It's a God shaped vacuum, as Augustine called it. In this end, people who seem seemingly have it all. [01:06:50] Speaker C: That's right. [01:06:50] Speaker B: That we would love to. We think if we could only trade places with them, all of our yearnings and issues would go away. No, people are people. People need the Lord no matter who they are. If your staff is to double. Talk to me a little bit about the apparatus of funding, like, do you have to raise that money? How does that work in order for you to double your staff in the next five years? [01:07:17] Speaker C: Yeah, we're all missionaries, every single one of us. And although we don't do our work overseas, there are FCA staff who serve overseas, but we function the exact same way. And so all of our staff are involved in, in raising funds, building support teams that undergird the programs that they lead and oversee. But also what allows them to live off of a salary from fca. [01:07:46] Speaker B: Let me ask it, and this is out of ignorance. I just don't know how it works. I know how, but I did the same thing. I had to raise money to do evangelism at one time. So I get it, but I know there's different ways of, of setting this up. So like Andrew, we, we help Andrew, we fund Andrew as a church. Does that money all go just to Andrew? Does that go to the FCA pot? And then he has a salary out of that. If he doesn't hit a certain number, does that mean that he doesn't get his salary? How does that work? [01:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's all individualized. So we, we each kind of. There's one big FCA bank account, but we each kind of have our own that we can see. So when people give locally, they can know that it's going to stay locally. [01:08:35] Speaker B: Okay. [01:08:36] Speaker A: Or be controlled by the local staff. And I say that because part of what the Lord has laid on my heart is we have partnerships with FCA in Bolivia and Haiti. So part of the money that comes in to support Nassau county actually goes to support international missions and the staff people that we have there. [01:08:58] Speaker B: So, so, and forgive me if this is too intrusive, I'll say it from my perspective. If I go out and I raise an extra million dollars for our church, I don't get an extra million dollars. My salary is the same. [01:09:10] Speaker A: Correct. [01:09:11] Speaker C: So same in fca. [01:09:12] Speaker B: Same in fca, absolutely. If somebody gives to you, that money helps meet other needs. If it, if you, if you reach Your. Your need. And then, and then boards control salary. I'm assuming. [01:09:25] Speaker C: Corporate FCA does. [01:09:26] Speaker B: Gotcha. [01:09:27] Speaker C: But there's, there's oversight of all budgets in fca. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Buy our boards and FCA is a, is a not for profit. That's right. [01:09:32] Speaker A: Correct. [01:09:33] Speaker C: 501C3. [01:09:34] Speaker B: Gotcha. Yeah. [01:09:34] Speaker A: To answer your question about staff, the greatest hindrance to FCA staff, Matt and I could probably list off a hundred names of people that we start the conversation about staff with. And then as soon as you get to the, you're a domestic missionary, you have to raise your own funds. It's like, oh, I'll go work for a church where there's a guaranteed salary or I'll go do something else where that's just too much for me. So if FCA could raise another million dollars, hey, that could go towards staff and saying, hey, we want you to come on. My personal preference is people always have some responsibility in it because the Lord has taught me so much about his faithfulness and my dependence on him in the fundraising process. But at the same time, if you could say, hey, I've got 75%, I need you to go get 25% of whatever your ministry budget is going to be, a lot more people would jump on board. [01:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I think about missions in general, and I felt this way for some time, is the missionaries that stay on our radar the most are usually the ones that are the most gifted at marketing. Doesn't mean they're the best missionary. Maybe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're the best missionary. The person that the Lord calls to be to plant a church in a foreign world, that gift set, they've got to be able to learn another culture, a new language. There's a lot of things you got to be good at to go overseas and be a missionary or to go into a high school and be a missionary. Marketing doesn't necessarily make that cut. Right. To be a great FCA coach or leader, it's probably not in the job description that you've got to have a marketing degree. Right. However, the way that it's set up, if churches don't step up and fund guys like yourselves in order to keep, keep you on the field, then what's going to happen is the only thing that we're going to have are the people that are really great at marketing that may not be so great at ministry. And so that's why, that's part of the reason we've always had a, a passion for directly supporting some of our guys is looking and seeing who's getting the job done. Let's get behind them, keep them in the game, so to speak. And that's one of the things when it comes to. As Southern Baptists, we've got our international mission board, what we give through the cooperative program. One thing that I wish would change in that is kind of what you said is they cannot raise their own money. So all of their money's given through the convention. They cannot raise their own money separately. Some of that's changing, but what happens is you get no communication. So you're throwing all this money at them and you're not hearing, what did you do with that? What's going on? The cool thing about the balance that you guys have is it does keep you in front of the churches so that we know, you know, you've got people championing FCA in our congregation and congregation. [01:13:05] Speaker A: I got a lot of them in your congregation. [01:13:07] Speaker B: You do, man. And that's partly because of fca, but a lot of it's to do with you and just the respect that people have for you and the work that you've done over the long haul. So I just commend you for that. [01:13:19] Speaker A: I appreciate that. [01:13:20] Speaker B: You've just got a lot of respect locally. Anything else that you guys would like to speak to or any prayer requests for locally or the movement or you personally, before we close, should you start, if you have. [01:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I would just say as we come into the. To the summer season, you know, school's out. There's a lot of freedom to do some things, leadership development wise with our student leaders being present on campuses as teams are still working out, football teams are still going four days a week. There'll be basketball teams in the gym, volleyball teams in the gym. Just pray for us to, to gain favor where we might not have favor in the county with. With coaches and athletes and for students to. To have a desire to. To lead with fca. One of my favorite stories is Emma Barone with at First Baptist. And she came to me as an eighth grader and said, hey, I hear FCA is kind of struggling at the high school. I want to make sure that FCA is strong. And I said, this is what we got to have in place. And for 18 months she asked and worked. And you're seeing the fruit of that now with 130 kids showing up every Wednesday for lunch to hear a message. [01:14:46] Speaker B: That class in particular is really special. There's several things going on in that group right now that they will make an impact. Yeah, it's Just a matter of time, you know, so what else would you add to that? [01:14:59] Speaker C: And you touched on this earlier, but FCA is, is looked at at large as a respected organization. And to think that we have a 70 plus year history where that's been the case is amazing, really is. And yet the, the longer I'm a part of FCA, I'm coming up on 15 years. I love and appreciate how those who are at the top in leadership have kept the main thing, the main thing, and that's Jesus. And I look at some of the other ministries that have existed for a long, long time that have just taken baby steps away or have kind of caved to some peer pressure, maybe not in any overt large decisions, but little things here or there, and you can so quickly lose your way unintentionally, not even seen in the moment. And I would say that's a constant prayer for this ministry, that we would keep Jesus the main thing. [01:15:56] Speaker B: I remember in the 80s when you had so many scandals that took place in the church at large, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, you know, these big high profile people began to fall. And I saw people who got kind of lost their faith through that. And then I saw my dad and I think whether this is right or wrong, this is just human nature. Dad always said. But, you know, Billy Graham stayed by the stuff and I think, lord, please don't let Billy Graham, you know, because he was somebody that gave dad hope that it's real. It's real. So in many ways, FCA is kind of in that place. Among the ministries that reach high schoolers is maintain that integrity and keeping that focus on Christ. And so absolutely, we will be praying that God continues to just give you the grace to carry that torch for his glory. So thank you guys for joining me today. [01:17:00] Speaker C: Thanks for having us. [01:17:01] Speaker A: Thanks for having us. [01:17:02] Speaker B: Excellent conversation. [01:17:06] Speaker A: It.